Little Red Riding Hood & Her Babe Ruth Signed 700th Homerun Day Ticket

[JT]

Originally Posted by shelly

Then the question is would you spend $ 12000 on this piece knowing what you have read. If you say yes why not buy a 1/1 that you think was a great bargin?
If you could not afford it I understand.

Shelly,

I would not mind owning that item as I have not seen anything to disprove it's authenticity, but that kind of money is way above my pay scale.

[shelly]

No problem, I am talking about the people on this site that have a ton of money and have said what a great item this is. I would think that in a year they could double there money.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Hi Jim,

I went back and re-read the info on Briggs stadium capacity available on the internet. I had two sources state that the capacity of Briggs Stadium was expanded to 30,000 in 1923, but you are correct in that they didn't expand to capacity of 36,000 until 2 years after Babe's 700th HR game in 1934.

Here is my original post about the Emergency tickets used in 1934 and my questions about the use of them after reading Josh from Huggins and Scotts post in the first thread:

"Very interesting...
I'm curious where the photo of all the tickets came from?
I see that it says eBay on the screen shot, but I'm intrigued how this image shows a ticket issued only one day apart (wow!) from the alleged Ruth 700 HR ticket. That's an amazing coincidence! They obviously are stamped identically, at the same angle, yet the Emergency Tickets are "A" tickets one day, and "Z" the following day- in July, no less (half way through the season)!
FWIW, about 22,000 were in attendance for Ruth's 700th HR. Did this require that the Tigers issue emergency tickets? I looked at all the surrounding games at DET on the 1934 schedule and they all appear to have similar attendance, especially with the Yankees in town. I saw attendances ranging from 20,000-26,000 during this homestand. I would also note that at least 4 games at DET prior to the NY series that featured Ruth's HR drew at least as many fans. One of the games drew 30,000 fans and the game on July 4th drew 40,000 fans for a twin bill. Would Ruth's 700th HR be Emergency ticket "Z" if it was at a minimum the 6th high attended game in DET in 1934?
I don't know, and I'm quite certain that no one knows for sure. It just seems odd to me, FWIW...

I certainly can be wrong, but I stand by my assertion that I have not seen other earlier vintage Tigers tickets stamped in this fashion prior to the screen shot that you posted"

FWIW, I now believe, given all of the new evidence submitted, that they would have issued Emergency tickets for the July 14th game as well, especially if they were anticipating a blow out turnout because of all the PR and the pennant battle between the Tigers and the Yanks.

You are correct in that the ticket takers would all be privy to the Emergency tickets being "A" or "Z" or whatever depending on the day.

Thanks Scott. I find this facinating,

Why were emergency tickets issued?
Was it only for the upper deck?
How would they keep track of seats so there were no duplicates sold? These weren't SRO, or lawn, or even GA. These were section/ row/ seat.

And can anyone answer WHY they were date stamped? Early purchase can be a possible explanation.
Has anyone found any others beyond the 2009 eBay lot. From any date beside the day before this ticket? Am I being too much of a PITA?

[shelly]

Why do you think your being anyting but interested is a pita.
I think the one place that no has gone to is the company that said the ticket not the autorgraph is real. I would love to know how they authenticated that ticket. If was not stamped how did they know it was from 1934.
Scott, don't get upset. I think that the company that said the ticket is authentic should explain why.
If there is secret to this then I wouild really be upset, that would mean that the ticket could be faked.
Leon, can you find this out?
Scott please correct me. The only 700 hr ticket you have seen was dated on the ticket and sold for $2500 plus. There is no other ticket out there except the one that is not a real ticket but one that is stamped. Hof,Yankees, Tigers, all of the place that you would think have a ticket don't. It is like Jimmey Spence authenticating an autograph that has no exemplars.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by shelly

Why do you think your being anyting but interested is a pita.
I think the one place that no has gone to is the company that said the ticket not the autorgraph is real. I would love to know how they authenticated that ticket. If was not stamped how did they know it was from 1934.
Scott, don't get upset. I think that the company that said the ticket is authentic should explain why.
If there is secret to this then I wouild really be upset, that would mean that the ticket could be faked.
Leon, can you find this out?

I think this is great. you're coming over to Travis' side!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Thanks Scott. I find this facinating,

Why were emergency tickets issued?

Emergency tickets (aka E-tickets) are sold if an event is unscheduled, or if additional tickets were required above and beyond the original amount that was printed prior to the season starting. Season ticket holders received a small number of E-tickets with their other pre-printed tickets at the beginning of the season for games that were unscheduled.

Think about it, this is the Great Depression Era. Baseball teams were not drawing attendances like 2013. Many teams were struggling financially. Computer generated ticket technology didn't yet exist. A team would pay a contracted ticket company to print a certain designated number of tickets for each game. If the game had poor attendance, the ticket stock is wasted and was thrown away (money wasted). In order to not waste money on ticket printing costs, a team would use E-tickets. E-tickets were a generic ticket with no printed date. Also it should be noted that, if a rain out occurs earlier in the season, a make up day or game may have had to be scheduled later on in the year. E-tickets would need to be used for events such as these if a game was not made up for in a double header.

Was it only for the upper deck?

No, these seats could be sold for anywhere in the stadium where they did not already have an assigned seat. Every stadium has "reserved" sections of seats with seat numbers and "unreserved" section where no seat numbers are issues. Your ticket would gain you entrance to this section and then it became first come, first serve. Bleacher sections and G/A (General Admission) are some examples of this.

How would they keep track of seats so there were no duplicates sold? These weren't SRO, or lawn, or even GA. These were section/ row/ seat.

If you had tickets to an event that was cancelled or postponed it would be my assumption that your original ticket would be brought along to direct you to the correct seat. If you were in the Bleacher unreserved section, you would go back to the bleacher section. If additional seats (circus seats) were added to the lower level like in the 1934 Yankees/ Babe Ruth 700 HR series at DET, I have no idea. I wasn't a fly on the wall in 1934!

And can anyone answer WHY they were date stamped?

They were date stamped instead of printed for reasons that I explained in the first answer.

Early purchase can be a possible explanation.

Not that I am aware of

Has anyone found any others beyond the 2009 eBay lot. From any date beside the day before this ticket?


Not me, but I haven't really looked for it.

Am I being too much of a PITA?

No worries, this is all about learning and having fun with your hobby.

BTW, I would also like to mention a couple of other specific historic baseball games that Emergency tickets were used (both were unscheduled games):

1) Denny McLain's 31st win in 1968 at DET. McLain also served up Mickey Mantles 2nd to last career HR in this game. No printed or stamped date on this ticket at all.


2) HOF Wade Boggs' career ML debut at CWS. No printed or stamped date on this ticket.

Unless you knew what you were looking for, you would never know these tickets if you saw them.

It should be noted that many of my answers come from knowing friends that worked in baseball ticket offices for many years, FWIW...

[shelly]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I think this is great. you're coming over to Travis' side!

It really has nothing to do with what side I am on. I just want to know how they came to the fact the ticket is authentic. I dont want them to say it is because there is a stamp on it.
If you look at my history on this site I have nerver sided with Spence or Psa.
Travis and I might not see eye to eye but both of us want to know the truth.Travis just goes about a little different than I do
I still want to thank everyone that whent the distance to find out if that ticket is authentic or not.
I really think it is time for the company that said it is authentic to explain. If I spent over $12000 I would like to know. This is not an autorgraph I really think there is no secret to this. Is the ticket without a stamp from that year no more no less and why?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by shelly

It really has nothing to do with what side I am on.

Shelly - we're talking autographs. You have to pick a side. One side is right and the other is wrong - that's why it's so easy to buy a Babe Ruth autograph and know it is not a forgery. Hasn't this sub-forum taught you anything?

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Shelly - we're talking autographs. You have to pick a side. One side is right and the other is wrong - that's why it's so easy to buy a Babe Ruth autograph and know it is not a forgery. Hasn't this sub-forum taught you anything?

Yes, it has. Instead of looking at the autograph let us find out if the ticket is authentic. Then like I have said over and over again it is up to you to decide if that autograph is real or not. I dont think the signiture is authentic. If the ticket is not authentic then it suports my thinking. I only want to know why that the comapny said that ticket was from that year without saying it had a stamp Do you think that is a question that should not be asked?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by shelly

Yes, it has. Instead of looking at the autograph let us find out if the ticket is authentic. Then like I have said over and over again it is up to you to decide if that autograph is real or not. I dont think the signiture is authentic. If the ticket is not authentic then it suports my thinking. I only want to know why that the comapny said that ticket was from that year without saying it had a stamp Do you think that is a question that should not be asked?

all we want is answers and people to explain why they think something is bad, or good. now if we could just get chris to explain. shelly is on my side but lets vet the autograph now.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by JT

If that is true, I can only assume whatever Chris stated was not sufficient in any way to override what others thought and believed, nor does it appear to even now.

agreed

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by shelly

Why do you think your being anyting but interested is a pita.
I think the one place that no has gone to is the company that said the ticket not the autorgraph is real. I would love to know how they authenticated that ticket. If was not stamped how did they know it was from 1934.
Scott, don't get upset. I think that the company that said the ticket is authentic should explain why.
If there is secret to this then I wouild really be upset, that would mean that the ticket could be faked.
Leon, can you find this out?
Scott please correct me. The only 700 hr ticket you have seen was dated on the ticket and sold for $2500 plus. There is no other ticket out there except the one that is not a real ticket but one that is stamped. Hof,Yankees, Tigers, all of the place that you would think have a ticket don't. It is like Jimmey Spence authenticating an autograph that has no exemplars.

Shelly, I know of only one printed date ticket in the hobby. That certainly does not mean that another does not exist. There were 20,000+ fans in attendance. This is pretty strong attendance for 1934.

One important point is that a ticket actually exists with a date on it, period. MANY tickets never had dates or years printed on the tickets themselves, only game numbers. This was the rule, not the exception at many ball parks. Detroit was one of the stadiums, that for history sake, fortunately produced plenty of dated tickets in this era.

[shelly]

Scott, I hand you my sword.

[Runscott]

edited - removed post in order to help this thread die a natural death.

[travrosty]

in the end of the story little red riding hood emerges unscathed and wins!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by runscott

edited - removed post in order to help this thread die a natural death.

[jgmp123]

Some additional info on a "tell" and the ticket.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=19877#more-19877

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Some additional info on a "tell" and the ticket.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=19877#more-19877

Thanks for providing this link, James!

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Some additional info on a "tell" and the ticket.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=19877#more-19877

Wow!!!! As much as I would like to own a Babe Ruth autograph how would I ever know it was real? And what about the collectors that have dished out six figures for those pristine, sweet spot Ruth autographed balls?

[JT]

If eBay would quit using these clowns as they did GAI, I am sure they would die a slow death. The amount of forgeries these clowns pump out is ridiculous and being that they certify this garbage as real, they are just as guilty and responsible as the people who make these forgeries.

As for the auction houses, they have invested to much money, time, and reputation to quit using them.

[whitehse]

The Hauls of Shame article is certainly compelling and it does make one think. I can honestly say that I, short of winning the lottery will never be in a position to actually purchase a Babe Ruth auto but if I was I would need to put some serious thought into it and determine if I really want to roll the dice and take a chance on one being real.

As for REA and Rob Lifson, I have never dealt with him but I give him the benefit of the doubt as it seems to me that he has been nothing but upstanding when items are pointed out to him as being questionable. Again, I am not in a position where I can spend large sums of money with REA but they have always struck me as more than reputable in their dealings. I just think the Hauls of Shame article that was linked which throws Mr. Lifson under the bus is more vintictive than anything else at this point.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by whitehse

I just think the Hauls of Shame [insert any HOS article here] that was linked which throws [insert member of hobby here] under the bus is more vintictive than anything else at this point.

Yes, nothing about his site has changed.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Some additional info on a "tell" and the ticket.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=19877#more-19877

OH NO!!! Nash gave away the Michigan Forger's tells!!!! Now he'll be unstoppable!

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

OH NO!!! Nash gave away the Michigan Forger's tells!!!! Now he'll be unstoppable!

Nothing to do with the "Michigan Forger," Dan. Not one of the three characteristics Peter mentions is exhibited by the other alleged "MF" Ruth Chris showed.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Nothing to do with the "Michigan Forger," Dan. Not one of the three characteristics Peter mentions is exhibited by the other alleged "MF" Ruth Chris showed.

Yeah...I was being sarcastic. The notion that only a select few should know the tells of a forger is ridiculous.

[Mr.Jerry]

Reviving an old thread. My father-in-law attended the Ruth 700th homer game with his family, and my wife has 4 ticket stubs. They are date stamped and similar to the ticket stub signed by Babe Ruth(?).

Thought I would post two of them to aid in the discussion of whether the signed ticket itself is authentic.

I came across this forum last night when trying to determine what if any value the ticket stubs have. Gary

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jerry

Reviving an old thread. My father-in-law attended the Ruth 700th homer game with his family, and my wife has 4 ticket stubs. They are date stamped and similar to the ticket stub signed by Babe Ruth(?).

Thought I would post two of them to aid in the discussion of whether the signed ticket itself is authentic.

I came across this forum last night when trying to determine what if any value the ticket stubs have. Gary

Hi Jerry,
Welcome to net54!
The stamped ink is extremely bold on your ticket for being 80 years old.
Just sayin'...

[Mr.Jerry]

Thanks Scott.

Frankly, I thought the same as you when I pulled them from a box of letters, mementos, and assorted other things this summer. They had been stored in an attic in Shreveport, LA for at least 60 years.

Many of the associated letters and envelopes had really deteriorated - falling apart when unbundled. The stubs looked like they were issued the previous week.

The provenance is pretty good, as my father-in-law spoke of witnessing "the Babe's famous home run". He said he had a program from the game, but I do not believe it has turned up.

I was surprised that the stubs were so rare when I read this thread last night. My posts of the images were just to add some more info to what was a spirited discussion. Gary