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Gentleman James (Jim) Corbett authenticity opinions
One fun thing about this board is that it's not typically shy about giving opinions. I recently bought this (haven't even received it yet), and wanted to get the board's opinions as to authenticity. I believe it's authentic or I wouldn't have purchased it, but I don't have a whole lot of experience with boxing graphs. As a matter of fact it will be only the 2nd signed boxing photo in my collection. (the first is a photo of me and Ali)
Inscription reads: To my old pal, Frank Cooley with best wishes from His old friend, Jim Corbett, Mar. 2/22 Here's the whole pic: Here's the up close view: |
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I will try find some 1922 examples and report back.
i got a call in to fighttoys.com and we will get some exemplars and look at it. Last edited by travrosty; 05-06-2013 at 07:31 PM. |
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Thanks Travis. And in case anyone is wondering, this isn't a "gotcha" or something like that. It's a photo I found at one of the vendors I do business with and thought it would make a neat addition. I also got a Buffalo Bill Cody signed check from them that is pretty sweet. |
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i appreciate a boxing post, i know it is not a gotcha, we are gonna look at it for awhile to give a qualifed, informed opinion, as first glances and opinions either way might be incorrect after further review. i like to study boxing a autographs very thoroughly, even though i might have an initial thought on it ji still like to give it the full treatment just to make sure because each and every autograph deserves a proper, full inspection, and then we give the opinion so we don't feel sorry or regret later should a 'quick opinion' turn out to be wrong. Last edited by travrosty; 05-06-2013 at 09:55 PM. |
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Trust me it is like taking a pice of chalk and scraping it on a board. It really hurts that much to say that Last edited by shelly; 05-06-2013 at 11:02 PM. |
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Great photo and yes, Travis is a boxing expert and has more knowledge than the TPA's. Plus, it will be STUDIED carefully he says..thats what you want to hear.
Not to bring up an old topic, but how can some TPA authenticate Ruth, Gehrig, Orr, the Beatles, Thomas Edison, George Washington, John Hancock, Neil Armstrong, Jimi Hendrix, etc.
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because there has been too many gotcha's in the past. that's why. whats kind of weird is that authenticity answers are looked at with a time limit, and people want them fast, but there is no rush. getting it right is most important, not turn around, the tpa's are in a race to turn it around the fastest, at the sake of accuracy in my opinion. the one who turns it around the fastest, gets the business because collectors believe they can do the job real fast, and give an accurate opinion, but the collectors don't know what the real deal is. go fast, and make too many mistakes. Last edited by travrosty; 05-07-2013 at 11:08 AM. |
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One thing I've learned from Travis is that the two primary TPA's are not really too proficient concerning boxing autographs. That's why I posted my Corbett photo here, rather then throwing the picture up on ebay and doing a "quick opinion".
From examples I've looked at online, I feel fairly confident that my Corbett photo would pass PSA/DNA and/or JSA, however, I'd rather know whether or not it's authentic, as opposed to whether or not it would pass a TPA. Mike |
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So when it comes to boxing autographs you don't trust the Ouija board that is in Newport Beach?
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That is the question. If you dont trust there opinion on boxing what make's them the expert in baseball,football, tennis, soccer, and all forms of the entertainment side.? It is an opinion. They never say it is authentic and take it to the bank.
Last edited by shelly; 05-07-2013 at 04:47 PM. |
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In stamps they don't specify any turnaround time. And the more controversial something is the more you need to send in along with it. In other words, sending in any stamp will take some time, I think 30-90 days. If it's something that's not well known sending in supporting documents cam be important. And that means it may take longer. And usually the result is "We decline to render an opinion" Which is neither good or bad just that with the current technology and knowledge they can't say with a comfortable degree of certainty. There's a group of Hawaiian stamps that are different from the known ones, but have supposedly good provenance. Multiple places have declared them as fakes, and finally they went to the royal philatelic society in the UK --- Which published a book explaining their opinion that they're fakes after 5 YEARS. (The group sold for I think 2-3 million anyway) And yet, with a card or autograph the more it's expected to be worth the quicker they want it judged and shipped back out. I get how a dealer might have a bit of cash tied up, and maybe the insurance co wants it in and out of the building as quickly as possible. But rushing the expensive stuff seems completely backwards. Steve B |
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Ive got zero interest in addressing that. There are enough threads on here where people can discuss that. Im just looking to find out if my Corbett is authentic or not. Nothing more, nothing less.
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As mentioned in my initial post, I do believe this one to be authentic or I wouldn't have bought it, but I do know there are people with a heckuva lot more experience with boxing than I have. Hopefully, my disclosing that it is PSA/DNA, won't jaundice future opinions on it. Mike Last edited by thenavarro; 05-10-2013 at 01:56 PM. |
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we are still looking at it, i am getting mark o.'s opinion on it, and he is only available from time to time, so when we get a good hold on it, we will report back.
look at all the big tpa's, you wont find boxing specialists, and jsa certified that corbett signed cut last year that.... well, you know my feelings about that one. Last edited by travrosty; 05-10-2013 at 02:27 PM. |
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A close-up on the signature and inscription would be helpful.
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I'll scan it tomorrow. I'm spending tonight camping out in the outfield of Rangers Ballpark with my daughter
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Mike, I have no opinion as I don't know anything about Corbett's signature, but if it is real, it is SPECTACULAR!!!!!!!!!!!
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mike |
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I trust PSA on the majority of baseball to get it right but I would trust several members on these boards opinion much more than any mainstream authenticator. |
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Did find out from a member that there was a stage actor and director named Frank Cooley during that time. Don't know if it's the same Cooley or not, but since Corbett apparently dabbled in acting as well, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same guy.
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JimStinson
Looks like no one has pulled the trigger on this one yet so I will. Corbett usually almost always signed his name Jas. J. Corbett, Unusual to see one signed "Jim", however, he had a habit of dating what he signed and a unique way of dating it , Month , day, a line and then the last two digits of the year. This one fits that , He had a distinctive capitol "T" in To to start the inscription , this one fits , his inscriptions were usually more lines than words (a couple words per line) This one fits , Ink seems darker than it should be BUT I'll guess this is heavy stock double weight paper which would absorb more ink and keep the signature dark these many years. Lastly disregarding the unusual "Jim" instead of typical "Jas. J." the last name is a match. So if any of the above makes sense In conclusion I'd say its good.
By the way Corbett wrote his own auto biography its called "The Roar of the Crowd" One of the best sport related books ever even if you are not a boxing fan its a great read. Corbett was very active in vaudeville as was the person the photo is inscribed to as mentioned in an earlier post. Enough supporting evidence for a thumbs up IMHO, Nice Snag ! __________________________ jim@stinsonsports.com |
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thanks Jim
I appreciate the analysis mike |
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JimStinson
Spoken like a true "Gentleman".. Glad to oblige also to add to the mix , The following about Corbett and the Corbett FRANK COOLEY connection ...
His bout with Steve O'Donnell was stopped when Corbett was told of the deaths of his parents. Patrick Corbett had bet his net worth on Jim's 17 March 1897 title defense against Bob Fitzsimmons. Jim's defeat ruined the elder Corbett, whom, police concluded, shot his wife then himself in a fit of dementia. (16 August 1898), Though devastated by the 1898 murder/suicide of his parents, Corbett continued his successful acting career on Broadway, and in early movies. Corbett acted in 10 films up until 1930 and even married an actress. Frank Cooley was a silent film & stage actor in addition to being a director active until his death in 1941. So its more than likely their careers overlapped many times and were indeed friends. ______________________ jim@stinsonsports.com |
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Thanks for the insight, Jim.
Very good to see you posting again.
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+1
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Ebay Store and Weekly Auctions Web Store with better selection and discounts Polite corrections for unidentified and misidentified photos appreciated. Rude corrections also appreciated, but less so. |
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JimStinson
Thanks a million.
Cool Trivia question ...What former major league baseball player is the only player in history who's brother was the heavyweight champion of the World?" ________________ jim@stinsonsports.com |
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(Subject of the thread kind of lobbed it out there, but had no idea he was the only one. Neat!)
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Ebay Store and Weekly Auctions Web Store with better selection and discounts Polite corrections for unidentified and misidentified photos appreciated. Rude corrections also appreciated, but less so. Last edited by thecatspajamas; 06-21-2013 at 03:45 PM. |
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JimStinson
LOL...it was kinda like a blooper pitch destined for a tape measure blast , but correct. Interesting though in that his autograph is FAR MORE valuable than his brother's.
Joe Corbett Washington Senators (1895) Baltimore Orioles (18961897) St. Louis Cardinals (1904) Died -1945 _________________ jim@stinsonsports.com |
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Jim, We need a few good stories. Mark Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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The Edge of My Seat
So when everything was said and done....what did Travis say about this autograph?
Jeff |
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Has it been six weeks yet...........
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I did not hear a final decision from Travis, nor did I see one posted anywhere. However, we all know authentication cannot be rushed, so he is probably still studying and researching to make his determination. In all fairness, I did not pay for his opinion, so I shouldn't expect to receive it, nor do I subscribe to his particular mantra, so if he doesn't want to assist when the time comes, that's fine too. However, another very knowledgeable boxing collector, Mark Ogren, posted a couple of screen shots from his fantastic exemplar collection, which leads me to believe that Mr. Ogren thinks my Corbett was authentic. I make that assumption, perhaps erroneously, from the file names that you can see at the top of each exemplar. If you look at my photo on his screen, you will see the date and sr.jpg. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that is the convention he uses for naming the authentic ones. If you look at his exemplar screen shots, you will see some termed Non authentic or something along those lines in the file name. To the best of my knowledge and belief, the file name on mine does not say that and is in the convention of the authentic exemplars. Who knows though. Perhaps Mark will chime in and say that's not what his file naming conventions mean, or that he mistakenly labeled mine authentic and it's not. I do know that after all my research into it, in my untrained boxing autograph eye, it appears to me to have enough similarities to other Corbett signatures of that time period that are purported to be authentic. I believe it's 100% legit. Here's the screenshots to peruse. Last edited by thenavarro; 09-09-2013 at 08:37 PM. |
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All the best. Jeff |
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funny, so they hijacked your scan to put in their examplar files, but didn't have the courtesy to at least tell you it's authentic...or taking your photo.
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"Compliments of the boxing guys if it will help alleviate the silly Jim Corbett issue:" then underneath that he posted the exemplar pic that contained my pic. Perhaps not the most direct way to state something, and again, I might have inferred wrong, but I believe in context of his post, that meant he (Mark O.) thought it was real. Perhaps also, when he used the term "boxing guys", maybe he meant Travis as well, and perhaps he was speaking (by typing) for him too. I'm not sure and didn't care to inquire further at the time. Mike Last edited by thenavarro; 09-09-2013 at 10:48 PM. |
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Shouldn't that be the boxing "group"?
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