NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used > Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-25-2015, 07:20 PM
pitchingace77 pitchingace77 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 141
Default Mantle Help needed!

I am not an expert on Mantle but for the most part to me this signature looks good, the k seems a little off to me. Any other ideas?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg $_57.jpg (51.4 KB, 341 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-25-2015, 07:23 PM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,903
Default

I'm not a fan.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-25-2015, 07:29 PM
shelly shelly is offline
Shelly Jaf.fe
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,254
Default

just for fun lets see the whole picture.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-25-2015, 08:14 PM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
Steve Zarelli
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,603
Default

I'd be shocked if Mickey Mantle was ever within 100 feet of this photo.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-26-2015, 10:15 AM
shelly shelly is offline
Shelly Jaf.fe
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
I'd be shocked if Mickey Mantle was ever within 100 feet of this photo.
He had to be how else would that photo been taken
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-26-2015, 01:47 PM
khkco4bls khkco4bls is offline
Kevin O'Gara
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: long island
Posts: 1,702
Default

I'm no expert but I do not like the N in mantle
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-26-2015, 02:16 PM
Klrdds Klrdds is offline
K&v!/\/ R@g$d@/3
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: GA
Posts: 1,101
Default

In my opinion every letter has something wrong if you look close enough.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-26-2015, 03:13 PM
7nohitter's Avatar
7nohitter 7nohitter is offline
Member
And.rew Mil.ler
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 1,533
Default

This is a DISASTER
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-27-2015, 02:48 PM
joed25 joed25 is offline
Jos.eph Dw.ek
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 512
Default

It definitely looks funky but I would say it's probably authentic.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-27-2015, 03:02 PM
pitchingace77 pitchingace77 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joed25 View Post
It definitely looks funky but I would say it's probably authentic.
Why do you say that?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-27-2015, 04:22 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,899
Default

The Mantle the OP posted is definitely authentic.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-27-2015, 05:03 PM
johnmh71 johnmh71 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 552
Default

Chris:

How is this different from any of the Florida forgeries that you post on a regular basis?
__________________
John Hat.cher
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-27-2015, 05:07 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,899
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmh71 View Post
Chris:

How is this different from any of the Florida forgeries that you post on a regular basis?
It's not even close to a "Florida" forgery, John.

Just think all the hundreds of variations of Mickey Mantle's autograph.

That's why I depend and have so much confidence in my "eye."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-27-2015, 07:27 PM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
It's not even close to a "Florida" forgery, John.

Just think all the hundreds of variations of Mickey Mantle's autograph.

That's why I depend and have so much confidence in my "eye."

Chris, just wondering, because I said initially I did not like it, but would love to be convinced what exactly your eye says... Later in life sig? Drunk? Rushed? Or just in your mind an acceptable common variation?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-27-2015, 07:31 PM
shelly shelly is offline
Shelly Jaf.fe
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,254
Default

Your eye is fantastic. Why dont you say the flow is perfect. The slant on tle is perfect with no hesitation. The whole autograph is perfect not slow no hesitations and is like the tpa"s would say/ Pressure, flow and it is consistent with other signatures
Some times people just sign sloppy but there are certain things you can see.
Stop with your eye. It is your opinion that it is good. Just like the Babe Ruth ticket that you said was bad.
You said then that it was bad and I am still waiting for that you can prove it.
Tell people why you like or do like something.
You are my friend but please stop with eye.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-27-2015, 07:40 PM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,903
Default

Thank you Shelly
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-27-2015, 07:49 PM
shelly shelly is offline
Shelly Jaf.fe
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,254
Default

No need to thank me. I am really tired of my eye. When I had a question about Chris's opinion> I went to Zip. someone I respect. He took the time out to say why he came to the decision he reached. If you read what he said. He did agree it was not good but at the same time he said that the example given by Chris was not correct as well. He gave a reason why he did not like it . It had nothing to do with his eye.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-28-2015, 05:10 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,899
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Econteachert205 View Post
Or just in your mind an acceptable common variation?
Absolutely.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-28-2015, 07:40 AM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
Steve Zarelli
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,603
Default

Here is my 2 cents…

I didn't like the Mantle for the following reasons. The “ic” has an odd slant; the right side of the M in Mantle is flared out. You see that in authentic examples on occasion, but far more often on fakes. I hate the pinched, open “a,” and the “n” looks clumsy and carefully applied. Lastly, the placement is sloppy and not nicely spaced and centered as he usually did. That's five red flags.

That said, there are some subtle positive attributes as well. Nice speed through the Ms, and a few other very subtle things I like to see, but don’t put on public chat boards.

Chris has studied Mantle far longer than me and I have a great deal of respect for his “eye.” The “eye” picks up on the “rhythm and feel” and goes beyond technical analysis. Sometimes this is what is needed to identify atypical but authentic examples. (Or examples that look great superficially, but look “off” for reasons hard to explain.)

My specialty is space and I have studied Neil Armstrong autographs for 20 years. After viewing thousands of them over time, I have seen sloppy train wrecks that fail on a technical basis, but I knew they were authentic because of very subtle cues that were hard to explain. Conversely, examples that 98% of dealers and collectors would think were fine, I knew they were very skilled fakes because they looked a tiny bit “off.” Trying to explain why is like the parents of identical twins trying to explain to others how they can tell them apart… but they always do.

Getting back to the Mantle, I trust Chris and his experience. However, assuming it is authentic, it is an example I would never want in my collection. Why pick an example that people could reasonably question when there are so many undoubtedly good examples available?

Last edited by Mr. Zipper; 01-28-2015 at 07:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-28-2015, 09:38 AM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,903
Default

Thanks guys, I was looking at only some of the technical factors steve mentioned without considering flow and overall construction, very helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-28-2015, 01:00 PM
shelly shelly is offline
Shelly Jaf.fe
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchingace77 View Post
I am not an expert on Mantle but for the most part to me this signature looks good, the k seems a little off to me. Any other ideas?
Is that Roger Maris signature with Mickey. If not can you please send the whole photo and not just the Mick signature.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-29-2015, 04:48 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,899
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post
Your eye is fantastic.
Thank you, Shelly.


MyEye2.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-29-2015, 09:37 AM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
Chuck Tapia
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
Here is my 2 cents…

I didn't like the Mantle for the following reasons. The “ic” has an odd slant; the right side of the M in Mantle is flared out. You see that in authentic examples on occasion, but far more often on fakes. I hate the pinched, open “a,” and the “n” looks clumsy and carefully applied. Lastly, the placement is sloppy and not nicely spaced and centered as he usually did. That's five red flags.

That said, there are some subtle positive attributes as well. Nice speed through the Ms, and a few other very subtle things I like to see, but don’t put on public chat boards.

Chris has studied Mantle far longer than me and I have a great deal of respect for his “eye.” The “eye” picks up on the “rhythm and feel” and goes beyond technical analysis. Sometimes this is what is needed to identify atypical but authentic examples. (Or examples that look great superficially, but look “off” for reasons hard to explain.)

My specialty is space and I have studied Neil Armstrong autographs for 20 years. After viewing thousands of them over time, I have seen sloppy train wrecks that fail on a technical basis, but I knew they were authentic because of very subtle cues that were hard to explain. Conversely, examples that 98% of dealers and collectors would think were fine, I knew they were very skilled fakes because they looked a tiny bit “off.” Trying to explain why is like the parents of identical twins trying to explain to others how they can tell them apart… but they always do.

Getting back to the Mantle, I trust Chris and his experience. However, assuming it is authentic, it is an example I would never want in my collection. Why pick an example that people could reasonably question when there are so many undoubtedly good examples available?
I AGREE "The “ic” has an odd slant; the right side of the M in Mantle is flared out. You see that in authentic examples on occasion, but far more often on fakes. I hate the pinched, open “a,” and the “n” looks clumsy and carefully applied. Lastly, the placement is sloppy and not nicely spaced and centered as he usually did. That's five red flags."

While there are 5 flags, there are 5 authentic characteristics I like the way the ink is blotted, dotted or flicked at the beginning of both "M"s. I like the angle of the "Mickey" in comparison to the angle of the "Mantle". I like (don't love) the interaction from the "M" to the "a". Not the best of flicks, but not cartoonish like a Florida Forgery. While the "a" is open, it is a strong sign that you can see the pressure point on the top left of it. While the "n" is a bit atypical, at least it's pointed. The "tle" would also have the slant I'm looking for.

I agree with Chris that it is authentic, although I would love to see a good scan of the entire picture and would not want it in my collection....Unless that pic was also signed by Maris.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-29-2015, 01:37 PM
timzcardz timzcardz is offline
T!M R10rd@n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 979
Default

Never mind . . . .

Last edited by timzcardz; 01-29-2015 at 01:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-29-2015, 01:42 PM
shelly shelly is offline
Shelly Jaf.fe
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,254
Default

It was signed by reggie jackson.
I think one of the most important points about that signature is the slant of tle and how perfect he crossed the t. There are things that we know make a bad Mantle this had some of them but not enough to make it a forgery. Just plane sloppy. If you have a piece of garbage like the Florida signatures I just put up red faces. If it something that makes you hesitate you say why. Not its just my opinion or my eye knows its bad.
Zip and Fud you dont have to write a book either
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-31-2015, 09:34 PM
ddog5 ddog5 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 35
Default

So this is the rest of the photo...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICKEY-MANTL...item3aa12c2661
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-31-2015, 09:42 PM
MikeKam MikeKam is offline
Mike Kaminski
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 501
Default

Looks good to me.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mantle Autograph Quick Help Needed! Nappy1525 Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports 6 01-22-2015 05:37 PM
Mickey Mantle Painting - Frame Help Needed canjond Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 4 03-12-2012 11:21 PM
1967 Topps #150 Mickey Mantle Needed Archive 1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T 0 07-05-2008 10:11 AM
1960 Topps Mickey Mantle Signed Card Needed... also a few other Yankees Archive Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 0 11-05-2005 08:30 PM
1951 Bowman Mantle, Mays, and Ford needed Archive 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 1 07-21-2005 07:02 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:53 PM.


ebay GSB