Ode to Pre-War Football Cardboard

[jefferyepayne]

I know there aren't a massive amount of pre-war football collectors out there. Sometimes this is because collectors don't actually know what is available to collect! I've even had conversation with football card dealers who are not aware of all of the pre-war items that are out there and available.

I thought it would be interesting to start a thread to show pre-war sets and items. As I like the history and people stories behind the cards, I'll try to add in a few interesting tidbits about the players and sets they are included in.

Let me start off with the first football card ever produced:





Harry Beecher is the only football card in the 1888 Goodwin Champions set. He was the captain of the undefeated Yale Bulldogs of 1887 and rushed for 66 touchdowns in his three years of college ball.

Beecher was the grandson of Rev. Harry Ward Beecher who was a popular pastor, lecturer, and anti-slavery activist during the 1800s. Rev. Beecher's sister was author Harriet Beecher Stowe, who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin.

The football playing Beecher went on to become a sports writer, insurance agent, and retail company executive until he retired and became a farmer at 60 years of age. He lived to be 81 and died in Chicago near where his daughter lived.

Please jump in and add your own pre-war items when you can!

jeff

[CowboysGuide]

Great idea for a thread. I currently don't have anything to add, but I hope others will jump in with some real gems like that Beecher!

[sockwell123]

awesome card. and neat piece of history.

[clamendo]

1928 Star Player Candy

Includes many interesting cards including Paddy Driscoll HOF rookie,
Red Grange, and Joe Sternamann cofounder of the Bears. A challenge to find and complete.



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[clamendo]

1931 Walker's Cleaners Packers

Celebrates the three time Packer champions. Local Green Bay regional issue

Includes many HOFers none more famous than Curly Lambeau


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[jefferyepayne]

I've always loved your Star Player Candy set, Carl! For those not familiar with the set, these cards are EXTREMELY hard to find. Known total population for each card is less than five. They were originally called "Anonymous Candy" because nobody knew who made them. There is a baseball set of these as well that you will see more often. A while back there was a find of a complete box of these with cards still in the wrappers. I believe they were all baseball but the box promoted them as Star Player Candy and was from Dockman, Inc. out of Baltimore. Dockman, of course, is known for other baseball card sets as well.

Here are a few of the stars that I have but Carl has the motherlode!


George "Wildcat" Wilson was an All-American halfback at the University of Washington. After graduation, he was enticed by Red Grange to play in Grange's new AFL league Grange was starting with his manager, CC Pyle. Wilson was the star of the Los Angeles Wildcats until the league folded. Wilson then played for three years with the Providence Steam Roller, helping them win the NFL Championship in 1928.

Here is a photo of the Steam Roller championship team:





Eddie Tryon was an All-American halfback at Colgate before playing in the NFL for the New York Football Yankees for one year. He was named 2nd team All-Pro that year before moving on to other endeavors.

SGC designates the year 1925 for Star Player Candy cards but this is believed to be incorrect based upon the fact that some of the players in the set did not play for the organization mentioned on their card until later years. PSA designates the year 1928 which is more likely when these cards were distributed but nobody is certain of this.

As Carl mentions, the Grange and Driscoll are highlights of the set. So are Sternamann and Benny Friedman. The Grange is probably the rarest of all of the Grange cards that exist.

jeff

[tuckr1]

Here is my modest entry, 1935 National Chicle, Bronislau "Bronko" Nagurski!

I know its legend, but I love this story!!



Nagurski was discovered and signed by University of Minnesota head coach Clarence Spears, who drove up to International Falls and arriving watched Nagurski out plowing a field. According to legend Spears asked directions to the nearest town, and Bronko lifted his plow and used it to point in the direction of town. He was signed on the spot to play for the Golden Gophers. Spears admitted he concocted the story on his long drive back to the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Jeff, were you thinking WWI or WWII?

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Jeff, were you thinking WWI or WWII?

Good point. Should have been more specific. Usually in cards when people say "Pre-war" and don't specify, they are talking about Pre-WWII.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Jeff - I have Chicles then, but I've posted most of those elsewhere. I don't have anything else. I don't think we've seen any Mayo Cut plug yet. I do see a Shotwell Grange in Carl's post.

Also, here is something I can squeeze into this thread given the year - there is no card of any 1925 Potsville Maroons player is there? Maybe in that Star Player Candy set?

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Thanks Jeff - I have Chicles then, but I've posted most of those elsewhere. I don't have anything else. I don't think we've seen any Mayo Cut plug yet. I do see a Shotwell Grange in Carl's post.

Also, here is something I can squeeze into this thread given the year - there is no card of any 1925 Potsville Maroons player is there? Maybe in that Star Player Candy set?

We're getting there, John, we're getting there. Much more to come on all of these fronts but trying not to post everything on the planet and have this thread stop quickly. Let's keep it rolling every day!

Are you a Pottsville Maroons fan? If so, I have a LOT of Pottsville stuff as it's become an area of concentration for my collection.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Hey Jeff - thanks for asking about my interest in the Maroons - its been something I've been digging around about recently. The 1920s All-Decade team only lists a single FB - Ernie Nevers - not a bad player . But, it's recently come to my attention that there was another pretty good fullback at that time. A 1987 Coffin Corner article documents Tony Latone's story - it's fascinating and several aspects are right up my alley - a forgotten star, a running back, possibly leading rusher of the 20s, the disputed 25 championship, the PA connection, etc.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Hey Jeff - thanks for asking about my interest in the Maroons - its been something I've been digging around about recently. The 1920s All-Decade team only lists a single FB - Ernie Nevers - not a bad player . But, it's recently come to my attention that there was another pretty good fullback at that time. A 1987 Coffin Corner article documents Tony Latone's story - it's fascinating and several aspects are right up my alley - a forgotten star, a running back, possibly leading rusher of the 20s, the disputed 25 championship, the PA connection, etc.

+1

In my opinion, Tony Latone should be in the Hall of Fame. Period. End of story. More rushing yards in his career than Grange and many fewer carries. I believe he has not been given as much consideration for the Hall as others because he was a coal miner who played football on the side and never went to college.


Team photo from 1925


1929 Boston Bulldogs. The Maroons moved to Boston after the 1928 season and played there as the Bulldogs for one year before folding. Tony Latone is second from the left in the top row.


Maroons at a '60s team reunion. Latone is top row, far right.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Awesome! Thanks Jeff. Very nice items. And thanks for providing some additional info on Latone.

Its so interesting the difference between remembered and forgotten sometimes. Could it also be because Nevers overshadowed Latone? Sometimes with all-decade or anniversary teams, etc., maybe the energy isn't spent to look at another fullback from 90 years ago. Not saying its right. I'm glad he's mentioned here. Its definitely an aspect of collecting I enjoy to remember some of these forgotten players and try to bring up their names when I can - he'd have my HOF vote.

Question - I'm always looking for a Chicle connection - is George Kenneally in the Bulldogs team photo?

Finally, didn't want to hijack the thread - I'd love to see more of the star player candy set.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Awesome! Thanks Jeff. Very nice items. And thanks for providing some additional info on Latone.

Its so interesting the difference between remembered and forgotten sometimes. Could it also be because Nevers overshadowed Latone? Sometimes with all-decade or anniversary teams, etc., maybe the energy isn't spent to look at another fullback from 90 years ago. Not saying its right. I'm glad he's mentioned here. Its definitely an aspect of collecting I enjoy to remember some of these forgotten players and try to bring up their names when I can - he'd have my HOF vote.

Question - I'm always looking for a Chicle connection - is George Kenneally in the Bulldogs team photo?

Finally, didn't want to hijack the thread - I'd love to see more of the star player candy set.

I could go all day on Pottsville perhaps a separate thread on the Maroons (and other related teams from Pottsville!) would be good at some point.

Kenneally is holding the football in the Bulldogs picture. He is also second from the right kneeling down in the reunion picture.

I have a copy of the agreement Kenneally and other players signed with Doc Striegel to "own" the team for a year and then have the right to purchase it outright (if I remember correctly). I'll have to find it to see exactly what the terms were.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Jeff. Happy to learn Kenneally is in those photos although I believe he missed playing on the famous 25 team by one year. Definitely agree on getting a Maroons thread going at some point.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Finally, didn't want to hijack the thread - I'd love to see more of the star player candy set.

Carl or others are gonna have to show you the other Stars in the set. The rest of the ones I have are commons.

I can show some of the stars in the other set Carl showed in a pile: Packers Walkers Cleaners. Some of these players have no other cardboard images so they are pretty cool!

Packers Walkers Cleaners were premium photos of the Green Bay Packers to commemorate their three consecutive NFL Championships from 1929 - 1931. The marketing information says they were distributed by Walkers Cleaners in Green Bay Wisconsin and that if you collected the entire set of 27, they would give you an album to put them in. There are so few singles available as compared to complete sets that some believe the were only distributed as complete sets in the end.

Here is what the front cover of the album looks like:


As distributed, these premiums had a white tab attached to the upper left corner that introduces the player and the set. They also have hole punches on the left side so they can be put in the album.


Some collectors removed the white tabs so you could see the entire picture. Premiums without tabs are worth significantly less (50%-60% of full value).

I have most of the premiums but quite a few are trimmed down to the size of a picture and look like they were once taped up to a wall by a collector. Here are some of the stars:


Arnie Herber played for his hometown Green Bay Packers for 11 seasons, winning four NFL Championships and being selected first or second team All-Pro 3 times. He led the league in passing several times and, along with Don Hutson, rewrote the NFL passing record book before retiring. Besides being in the PWC set, Herber is depicted on a 1933 Diamond Matchbook cover. He is a member of the 1930s All-Decade Team and was elected to the Pro Football HOF in 1966.


Cal Hubbard also has a 1933 Diamond Matchbook. He is best known as the only player inducted into both the Pro Football and Baseball Hall of Fame's. Hubbard is also in the College Football Hall of Fame, a member of the 1920s All-Decade Team, NFL's 50th Anniversary Team, NFL's 75th Anniversary Team.


Johnny "Blood" McNally was quite a character. His off field antics are legendary while playing RB in the NFL from 1925 until 1938 before turning to coaching. He is also depicted on a 1934 Diamond Matchbook cover. Johnny Blood, as he often went by, is a member of the 1930s All-Decade Team and was elected to the Pro Football HOF in 1963. He is also know for scoring the last touchdown in franchise history for the Pottsville Maroons.


Mike Michalske was an All-American Fullback at Penn State before playing in the AFL and then NFL for the New York Football Yankees and Green Bay Packers. He convinced Lambeau to move him to the line and became the first guard elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1964. Michalske was a 6x All-Pro and won three consecutive NFL Championships with the Packers in 1929, 1930, 1931.

jeff

[Mikehealer]

Jeff, those are great. I remember back in the early 70's as a kid, my brother and I used to read about the early days of the NFL and our 2 favorite players from the early years were Bronko Nagurski and Johnny "Blood" Mcnally. Thanks for posting.

Mike

[Publius]

Jesus Carl, this is a drop the microphone kind of picture! Simply incredible, one of my favorite, hardest to find sets

Originally Posted by clamendo

1928 Star Player Candy

Includes many interesting cards including Paddy Driscoll HOF rookie,
Red Grange, and Joe Sternamann cofounder of the Bears. A challenge to find and complete.



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[Angyale]

1930 Stiller and 1936 Wheaties - both with several HOFers!

Angyale

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Publius

Jesus Carl, this is a drop the microphone kind of picture! Simply incredible, one of my favorite, hardest to find sets

+1000 Joe.

I love this set and Carl is DA MAN.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Jeff, great showing on those Packers stars! Did you wind up picking it up as a set since the singles don't come up much? I'm pretty sure I read the theory that they were actually distributed as entire sets in Gridiron Greats as well.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Jeff, great showing on those Packers stars! Did you wind up picking it up as a set since the singles don't come up much? I'm pretty sure I read the theory that they were actually distributed as entire sets in Gridiron Greats as well.

I picked up a lot that appears to have come from two separate collectors. I'm still missing a few from the set.

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

The 1894 Mayo Football Set is the only football tobacco set that exists. It consists of players from Yale, Harvard, and Princeton and includes quite a few college stars from the early to mid 1890s.

Here are a few of my favorites.


Frank Hinkey is one of only a handful of players to be named a 4x All-American. Hinkey, who only weighted 145 pounds, was such a vicious tackler that Walter Camp dubbed him the "disembodied spirit" as he seemed to drift effortlessly through opposing blockers and deliver ferocious hits on ball carriers. Hinkey was a two time captain and led Yale to three College Championships in his four years of football.


Neilsen "Net" Poe was one of six Poe brothers who played football at Princeton in the 1880s - 1890s. Neilsen's grandfather, also named Neilsen, was Edgar Allan Poe's cousin.


Thomas "Doggie" Trenchard played football at Princeton and was an All-American in 1893. He was an early professional football player, playing for the Latrobe Athletic Association and Allegheny Athletic Association from 1895 - 1898. He coached football off and on for 20 years at colleges including North Carolina, West Virginia, and Washington & Lee.

jeff

[cmoore330]

I'm waiting patiently for someone to show off a collection of Gridiron Greats blotters...

[sockwell123]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of this stuff out there

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by sockwell123

Doesn't seem to be a lot of this stuff out there

You will not find a lot of pre-war items at most card shows. Some of the bigger ones attract a few dealers that specialize in vintage football and they may have some nice stuff. Most baseball dealers don't even know what exists pre-war other than perhaps Chicles and Mayos. There's always great stuff at the National. Also a lot of nice things in some of the on-line auctions including ebay.

The Packer's Walkers Cleaners are a regional set. Most of the other items shown so far were distributed on a wider scale but how wide is subject to debate (much like pre-war baseball).

There's plenty of stuff out there to explore / discover, though. You just need to take the time to learn about it and know what to look for. That's part of the fun for me!

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by cmoore330

I'm waiting patiently for someone to show off a collection of Gridiron Greats blotters...

Well, I don't have THE collection but this might do for now.

Ink blotting paper was used to blot off excess ink from documents being written with a fountain pen. A blotting paper sheet typically had absorbent material on one side and advertisements on the other. Ink blotting paper was attached to a device called an Ink Blotter that would allow the author to rock the blotting paper over a document to blot off the excess ink. For whatever reason, ink blotting paper is often called an Ink Blotter as well which can be confusing.

Many football Ink Blotters (actually ink blotter paper) exist but around 1937, a set of 12 ink blotters of famous football players was produced. They can be found with and without advertisements on them and in three different sizes: small, medium, large plus on a calendar. Here are a few I have with and without advertising on them.


Red Grange


Tom Shevlin


Walter Eckersall

Here are a couple of other ones from the 1950s


25 Year All-American Team


Bronko Nagurski

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Ok, I guess the ink blotters weren't a hit. Let's go in a different direction.

In 1926 Red Grange starred in a movie called "On Minute to Play". It was sponsored by a Candy Company called Shotwell Mfg. and they produced two sets of Grange cards that were distributed with a Red Grange candy bar they created. The first is a 24 card set that depicts scenes from the movie. They are blank backed so often called the "Blank Back" set. The second is a 12 card set that depicts Red Grange in his football uniform. They have an advertisement on the back so often are called the "Ad Back" set.

A few blank backs:







A few ad backs:







I haven't seen the signed photo or the album that were available from Shotwell as mentioned in the ad on the back of the cards. Maybe somebody on Net54 has these and could show them.

Here is the Red Grange candy bar wrapper.



There are at least three known versions of the Shotwell Red Grange wrapper.

You will also sometimes see empty Red Grange candy bar boxes up for sale as well.

jeff

[sockwell123]

The Blotters look Pristine. What do you store them and the Wrapper in? if i may ask

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by sockwell123

The Blotters look Pristine. What do you store them and the Wrapper in? if i may ask

In the bank!

Also in large top loaders ... I think that's what you were asking.

jeff

[sockwell123]

Yes sir. The '76 Crane Discs are probably the only thing i have odd sized. i've been trying to figure out what to store them in besides just a plastic sleeve. I don't have anything i'd deem bank worthy... Now that brings up another thought about insurance.

[cmoore330]

Everything about those blotters is a hit! Thanks for posting them.

[clamendo]

Jeff - There are 13 different Shotwell Ad. Backs


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[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by clamendo

Jeff - There are 13 different Shotwell Ad. Backs


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Oops, my bad. Thanks for reminding me, Carl.

There ARE 12 Shotwell's but one of them has a variation. The original image on #9 showed Grange in his Bears uniform and it is believed that the Bears and/or the NFL objected to this so the image was changed. Is that your understanding of what happened, Carl?

jeff

[clamendo]

Yes, but time to give the post more umps[
IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/5bf525a6606f06413b9fe64cd98df3f0.jpg[/IMG]

Have you seen BOTH Spanish Granges. ...


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[clamendo]

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[clamendo]

Speaking of Pottsville

I can't get a SGC 96 on a 50s card, Randy Stuckemeyer had a great eye


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[clamendo]

GG notebook ... Win one for the Gipper



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[jefferyepayne]

Great stuff as always, Carl! I have seen both Spanish Grange's but haven't yet been able to snag the Vidal one. I took a run at one a while back but came up short.

Your Lafayette set is a killer! Have you every seen another one of these cards anywhere?

I forgot about the GG notebooks. Is this the larger size that I mentioned or another size completely? I can't recall.

Saw a GG Nagurski calendar about 3-4 years ago at a show and for whatever reason, didn't snag it. Will probably never see another one.

jeff

[clamendo]

AJ Firestone told me he has seen a few over the years being from that area. They are really tough. It seems anything that is blank-backed or not readily identified on the front or back is a real treasure hunt.


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[clamendo]

The notebooks page is larger than the calendar. I paid full price when I bought them but happy now that I did.


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[jefferyepayne]

You can't talk about 1920s football cards without covering the iconic Spalding/Sports Co. of America set.

The football set is actually a subset of a much larger multi-sport set produced by the AG Spalding company to promote their products. I believe these cards were distributed along with a scrip that could be used as $$$ to buy Spalding products and equipment. There is a lot more info on this set in Carl's iconic football card book: "Collecting Vintage Football Cards". Anybody collecting vintage football NEEDS this book by the way as it's very comprehensive.

If you go out to ebay you will see a BUNCH of cards from this set available but not many of the football ones. In general they are very difficult to find and some are virtually impossible. There are 14 football cards in the set plus a promotional Red Grange card that was only distributed in an uncut salesman's sample so it is very rare. The cards come with three different backs: blank back, ad back, and bio/stats back with ad backs being the rarest. Besides being distributed in 1926, there are versions that have a 1927 copyright on them as well. This is considered a separate set even though the cards are all the same. The 1927 copyright cards are even more difficult to find.









For many of the stars in this set, their cards pre-date their official rookie cards by years if not decades. I've personally never understood the reasoning behind not designating someone's first card as their rookie card but I suspect it was done through a combination of ignorance about earlier sets, the belief that a rookie card must be nationally distributed by a major set producer, and the TPGs wanting to drive demand for rookie and HOF registry sets by choosing cards with higher populations.

Pre-rookies of note in this set include: Red Grange, Ernie Nevers, Benny Friedman, Harry Stuldreher. All are the first cards ever produced for these players except Grange as it is likely his Shotwell cards and his W590 strip card came earlier.





jeff

[tuckr1]

Jeff do you have or have you seen a salesman sample in a full strip, with the grange?? Awesome cards, thanks for the history lesson I had no idea about all the prewar football out there!! I am going to order the book as well.

Thanks Tucker

[LuckyLarry]

I'm enjoying the cards, but I feel like the kid who wasn't picked for the kickball game. I've got nothing!
Larry

[jefferyepayne]

I believe a few uncut sheets have come up for sale during the past 10 years but haven't seen one in a looooong time. I know several of these were cut up and the individual cards were sold which is something I'm not a big fan of doing.

Preserve history, don't destroy it!

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Wheaties has been featuring athletes on its boxes for decades. In the mid 1930s, they created several sets of football players that could be cut off Wheaties boxes and collected. Here are a few of the stars and HOFers.











jeff

[jefferyepayne]

Speaking of cereal sets, in 1937 Kellogg's distributed multi-sport stamps inside Pep brand cereal boxes. They came in four-stamp blocks and 24 different blocks were produced with 90 different athletes included (6 players are double prints and appear on two blocks). You will see these stamps for sale in both block and individual stamp forms as the stamps were perforated and meant to be separated and put in an album.

Football stars in this set include Grange, Nevers, Thorpe, Nagurski.


William Shakespear


Red Grange


Howard Jones

jeff

[clamendo]

That Wayne Milner panel is a bear to obtain


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[clamendo]

I have seen 1925, 1926, and 1927 Sport Company of America


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