Piedmont 150 plate scratch(es) progress

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

You know, this would be a great project for a grad school student. Especially someone studying big data or something similar where they try to pull information out of seemingly random, unconnected, data sets.

Someone would have to compile all the data - ghosts, plate scratches, two-names, mis-cuts, etc and let some eager, young, stay up all night students have a go at it.

What makes it tough is all the data is spread out over different series and backs and there is evidence that the sheet layouts were changed even among the same series and backs. Using the piedmont 150's as
an example you have a two name Lundren/Dooin and Lundgren/Ball and you have hand cuts of Wagner and Plank.

There were also some subjects that were added sometime in the middle or late printing of the 150 series one of which was Crawford (Throwing) and the plate scratches indicate he was somewhere in the middle of a sheet.

[Pat R]

Some of the subjects on a partial sheet with Crawford (Throwing)

[Pat R]

The scans are small, I had to reduce them because the file was to big.
The scratches are highlighted in red on the right.

From left to right it's Ball-Crawford-Cicotte-Seymour-Criss

[steve B]

Wow Pat.

That's fantastic.

9 vertically for each player if I'm counting right?

Of course a couple of the unfilled corners could be different players.


Steve B

[Jobu]

Damn Pat, brilliant work!

[Pat R]

Thanks Steve and Bryan. Steve I think some of these sheets were more than
9 verticals high of the same subject.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by Pat R

What makes it tough is all the data is spread out over different series and backs and there is evidence that the sheet layouts were changed even among the same series and backs. Using the piedmont 150's as
an example you have a two name Lundren/Dooin and Lundgren/Ball and you have hand cuts of Wagner and Plank.

+1

Walsh/Seymour - Piedmont 150
Walsh/Brown, M - Piedmont 350
Walsh/Lumley - Piedmont, series unknown due to back damage

[Luke]

We also have Jantz's Shipke/Griffith and my oversized Shipke that clearly is at the top of the sheet. Both P150. I'll come back and add scans when i get to my computer.

Nice work Pat! Really interesting stuff!

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

We also have Jantz's Shipke/Griffith and my oversized Shipke that clearly is at the top of the sheet. Both P150. I'll come back and add scans when i get to my computer.

Nice work Pat! Really interesting stuff!

what makes all of this very tough is the probability that sheet layouts may have changed even within a "series."

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by t206hound

what makes all of this very tough is the probability that sheet layouts may have changed even within a "series."

+1

[steve B]

The sheets very well could have been more than 9 high. But now we know P150 was most likely at least 9 high for the same subject. There's gaps and missing corners, but if they weren't the same subjects I think two name cards would be more common. So keeping it sort of simple --At least 9 high for each subject.

It's good to know a piece like that for sure.

Even if it makes me totally rethink something else I'd been working on that had me thinking each subject was 8 high.

I believe that means it's possible to find at least 9 versions of each front, most likely with very small differences but some will be easily identifiable.

Steve B

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by steve B

The sheets very well could have been more than 9 high. But now we know P150 was most likely at least 9 high for the same subject. There's gaps and missing corners, but if they weren't the same subjects I think two name cards would be more common. So keeping it sort of simple --At least 9 high for each subject.
Steve B

One interesting side note is that while there are more than a few two name cards with Piedmont 150 in which the subjects are known to have instances of plate scratches, none of the two name Piedmont 150 cards themselves have plate scratches.

[Pat R]

A pair of Oldrings with the same scratch and corner crop mark.

The scratch runs through the i in series the m in piedmont the A in cigarette
the u in quality and the A in factory.

[tedzan]

I like Pat's diagram (post #151).....as it is similar to some of the stuff I have been presenting on this forum regarding T206 sheet arrangements.

Although, the subject matter in this thread pertains to Piedmont 150 cards, any indicators in the 150, 350, 460 series enable us to figure out the
possible sheet structure.

For example....illustrated here is my hypothetical simulated sheet of T206's that I refer to as the Exclusive 12 subjects (460 series). My research
suggests that these 12 subjects were printed separately from the other 460 series cards. And, on a standard 19" x 24" cardboard sheet in such a
configuration.

Incidently, the length of this sheet (24") could accommodate a 9th row of T206's....which results in a 108-card sheet.



. l<..................................... 19" wide x 24" long sheet ......................................>l




TED Z
.