|
|
#1
|
||||
|
||||
Pretty simple design, but I really do like these. Some great players represented.
Still looking for the Frank Howard - Senators version. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Rob,
Your comment about me tracing down the story behind these pins raises another dimension in being a pinback detective. I will say for the record that Howard and his connection is the only way this story will ever be known. All the sleuthing on pins that I have ever done involved trying to tie together scattered clues from the past. I recall one person even asking me, "Why would anyone care about such stuff?" My only answer was, "I don't know, but I do." The new dimension in this case pertains to legal issues---the selling of licensed images. This is a pinback story that not only is not known, but perhaps some people may wish to have it remain unknown. By now I believe the statute of limitations may have expired, or perhaps more simply, no one in MLB today cares what happened 40 years ago. Then again, maybe MLB might want to make this photographer a poster child for those who defy them. I think winning the trust of this person is critical, along with perhaps the assurance of anonymity in telling the story. By the way, I learned a lesson about these licensing laws about 10 years ago. My local minor league team hosted the league all-star game. I am friends with the GM, and asked if I could have made a 3.5" pin that listed all the teams in the league, plus some information about the all-star game itself. He said that would be great, but I could not sell them. The illegality is not the making of the merchandise, but the selling of it. So I ordered a batch of 50 pins, one for each player, one for each team GM, and a few other people. I recall it costs me about $100. I remember being a real SOB with the pinmaker, demanding the precise placement of images on the pin, and the right pattern of coloring. All minor league logos are licensed as well. As such, I did not violate the licensing laws because I did not sell the item, but the pinmaker did for selling the item to me. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Sorry for taking so long guys
Quote:
1) I've been going through a separation and divorce for 2 years now and have not had the time I usually devote here. 2) I am the ebay seller offering the Clemente pin. Multiples can not be bought at any price as these pins in my experience are that scarce. I own the only 2 Clemente's I have ever seen. The only reason I am offering it for sale at all is to help fund #1 I hope I sell other items to raise the needed funds. 3) As far as the back story on the pins. Due to some of the potential issues mentioned in the quote above and the persons desire for privacy, I will not be using names. Parts of the story I am piecing together from 1 and 2 parties away from the source who led me there. Here goes: The images were taken by a professional sports team photographer. Unclear if the images were done in studio or elsewhere, but the images were all originals. The photographer knew many of the ballplayers through association with the team he was photographer for. There was intention/discussion/plans, etc of getting a license. A second hand part of the story was that the person trusted to get the license gambled and lost the money that was to be used for the license. In any case, no license was ever secured. Distribution or lack thereof is a bit puzzling - I know an earlier post said he remembers them being sold outside a stadium - it is the only time I have heard that. A small batch of pins were made in advance of securing the license. I have been told (third hand)that the photographer gave them out to friends and family. The original photographer communicated to at least one person I spoke to that he was not allowed to sell the pins without a license. I have a small print of the Clemente. A large Clemente print 18x24 (This is almost certainly the same image from behind Vera's head - shown in an earlier post) sold in a Lelands auction back in 2007 (see image - clearly from the same shoot, but slightly different image - check the bat). I spoke directly with the family member of the original photographer who apparently still owns the negatives. He was very suspect of my jubilation and questions. He really didn't shed much light except confirm he has the negatives, confirm the "licensing issue", and asked not to be contacted. It seems there will remain more questions than answers about this issue. It would be great if someone would take charge of compiling a checklist. Anyone have time, want to work on that? I own: Clemente, Mays, McClain, Gaylord Perry. I owned a Pete Rose photo/"pin proof". These pins are easily discernible by the high quality of the Player image set against a color background that fades to white in its center. Hope that helps. Howard Last edited by hcv123; 11-30-2015 at 11:20 AM. |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
First of all, Howard, sorry if we were having fun with your price on the Clemente pin. I'm not sure you'll get it, but good luck. I had actually scribbled down a list, earlier, from this thread. Here's what I came up with:
Cubs - Pepitone, Santo, Williams, Hands, Popovich, Ortiz, Beckert, Jenkins Red Sox - Scott, Conigliaro, Kennedy, Petrocelli, Josephson, Griffin, Culp, Yaz, Aparicio Orioles - Powell, B. Robinson, F. Robinson, Palmer Brewers - May, Bristol, Walton, Saunders, Harper, Hogan, Koslo, Loockwood, Pattin, Joss Senators - McClain and Howard (rumored) Reds - Rose and Bench photo proofs seen, but not actual pins. Mays - Giants Blue - A's Clemente - Pirates Seaver - Mets Perry - Giants? (rumored) Could be as many as 36 or 37, with definitely more when you count the variations in size, pose, finish and/or whether they have the facsimile autograph.
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! Last edited by ooo-ribay; 11-30-2015 at 09:33 PM. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
checklist and Clemente
No worries on the fun with the Clemente pin. I understand based on what other similar pins have sold for that the price seems astronomical. I know the story behind them and the likelihood that no more than a handful of any player exist. I have seen only 2 Clemente's in over 25 years of collecting (and own both currently). I have sold too many items in the past for way less than their known scarcity dictated(imo). I have found that eventually someone who really knows how scarce certain items and want to add them to their collections is willing to pay for them. I'll either have an incredibly scarce pin remain in my collection or get what I believe to be a fair price for it.
As a point of information on the checklist - I never saw a finished pin of the Rose - only a proof/photo. Did someone else report owning or seeing a Rose pin? |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Is Gaylord Perry pictured as a GIANT? Would you mind posting a picture? If you have any thoughts of selling, please PM me.
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Guess I'm getting the last laugh
So the Clemente is sold. I have attached pictures of the Clemente with and without autograph - the plot thickens.
|
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
1971 Pirates Ticket Quest: 98 of 153 regular season stubs (64%), 14 of 14 1971 ALCS, NLCS , and World Series stubs (100%) If you have any 1971 Pirate regular season game stubs (home or away games) please let me know what have! 1971 Pirates Game used bats Collection 18/18 (100%) |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Very interesting
Quote:
The Rose "proof" that I had was small and square - approximately "pin size". The Clemente print I have is larger - I think 3x5. Whoever has the Bench - what are the measurements? Last edited by hcv123; 12-03-2015 at 07:11 AM. |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
I'm now wondering about the background colors, too. Did the photographer have pinkish, blue, green, etc. backdrops or were colors somehow added after the photos were taken in front of a, say, white background?
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
Bench is not mine, but judging from the fingerprint in the lower right, I'm gonna guess 4x6 or 5x7.
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Add another one to the Cubs checklist, that's a 3" inch Randy Hundley pin in that scan. I believe there is a Ken Holtzman 3" pin, there was a negative that was on eBay a few years ago that was described by the seller as being used for a pin. There is also a mystery pin on this guys hat in Wrigley Field from a 1973 photo, it's the one to the left of the Popovich pin. Anyone have an idea who the player is? Possibly Milt Pappas? The others known are Ernie Banks, Glenn Beckert, Bill Hands, Fergie Jenkins, Don Kessinger, Jose Ortiz (need), Paul Popovich, Ron Santo, Billy Williams. The 3 1/2" versions that I know of are Ernie Banks (need), Glenn Beckert, Joe Pepitone, Ron Santo.
__________________
“interesting to some absolute garbage to others.” —- “Error cards and variations are for morons, IMHO.” |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Baseball's appeal isn't complicated or confusing. It's about the beauty of the game; it's about heroes and family and friends; it's about being part of something larger than yourself, about tradition---receiving it and passing it; and it's about holding on to a bit of your childhood. Tom Stanton from The Road to Cooperstown |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Baseball's appeal isn't complicated or confusing. It's about the beauty of the game; it's about heroes and family and friends; it's about being part of something larger than yourself, about tradition---receiving it and passing it; and it's about holding on to a bit of your childhood. Tom Stanton from The Road to Cooperstown |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
__________________
“interesting to some absolute garbage to others.” —- “Error cards and variations are for morons, IMHO.” |
#18
|
||||
|
||||
Bump. I still want to see the Gaylord Perry. I have an ebay search for it but still don't know if it really exists.
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
beautiful pins
I would love to see a scan on Seaver. Only one mets pin? I would imagine they would make few especially after winning the pennant in 1969.
Nice stuff and thread!
__________________
_________________________ Always buying Deaf Sports related, William Hoy, Luther Taylor, George Kihm, Grover Alexander, Dick Sipek, Curtis Pride, Carlton Molesworth, Lou Burdette, Gil McDougald, Ralph Lin Weber, Gallaudet University Set 1909 E-91A (23/33) 1993 Topps Finest Refractor (109/199) |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
Here's the super rare Friars Cub pin using the Willie Mays image from this series.
Hammered? Oh, yeah. Happy to have it? Oh, yeah.
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
FAScINATING STUFF... is there a more modern 80s Giants or other Pinback thread?
__________________
Collecting vintage nodders... building 60s 70s card sets... pretty much anything SF/NY Giants
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Always enjoy seeing what you have. Thanks for sharing your collection.
|
#23
|
||||
|
||||
Orioles
Can you take another picture of the Brooks pin when you have an opportunity since I see a bunch of other O's pins surrounding "the greatest third baseman of all time"? Love to see those other O's pins!
|
#24
|
||||
|
||||
I would think it is safe to say this one could be a bit over priced?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-S...QAAOSwHQ9WUUwb
__________________
1971 Pirates Ticket Quest: 98 of 153 regular season stubs (64%), 14 of 14 1971 ALCS, NLCS , and World Series stubs (100%) If you have any 1971 Pirate regular season game stubs (home or away games) please let me know what have! 1971 Pirates Game used bats Collection 18/18 (100%) |
#25
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Earliest Collectibles of Baseball Hall of Famers | bcbgcbrcb | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 148 | 05-14-2018 08:12 PM |
FS/Trade: Various Baseball Memorabilia & Cards | Archive | Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T | 1 | 03-20-2009 05:52 PM |
1970s baseball dinner program with Casey Stengel | Archive | Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T | 0 | 01-25-2009 12:13 PM |
Baseball QUestions | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 26 | 08-02-2006 06:18 AM |
A short baseball story for your reading enjoyment | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 6 | 11-20-2004 06:50 PM |