Philly Show

[Cobra Kai]

Curious if anyone attended the Philly Show this weekend and how it was? Unfortunately I'm booked this weekend and won't be able to make it.

[mooch]

I was impressed. Many, many vintage dealers. At least 4 1952 Mantles. Guys with 500 t206s. Cases with $10-$50k of cards. I should've brought more money.

[x2drich2000]

This was probably the worst Philly Show I can remember. A lot of dealers missing. I did not see Baggers or Wayne Varner. The corner by where PSA is normally situated was empty and only 1 dealer was set up against the side wall near the loading doors (to the left as you approach the autograph area). A lot of the prewar stuff was the same from previous shows. For me the highlight of the show as usual was talking with folks like Al and Val.

DJ

[skelly]

I found the show to be pretty typical. Looked to be well attended ( at least early in the day ) From what I can tell, quite a few people go in order to consign to auction houses and submit to the grading companies. Certainly some deals and fun to be had if you are looking to do the off grade dollar box thing. As far as if you want a PSA 6 59 Mantle, A SGC 60 Jim Brown rookie..., it seems that you are likely going to pay more for those types of cards. Better off being patient and looking for that kind of stuff via the auction format.

[Snapolit1]

Show apparently was somewhere between impressive, terrible and pretty typical.

[glynparson]

If you are used to the old philly show this model was down right pathetic but If you are comparing it to your average mall show it was impressive. That said attendance seemed decent. Pricing was typical show pricing but like I say if they just wanted eBay auction prices they would be on eBay in an auction. I unfortunately did not feel the greatest so I was only there a very short time. Spoke to some old friends and got out of there. If I missed anyone it wasn't personal I just did not feel well.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Show apparently was somewhere between impressive, terrible and pretty typical.

Jokes aside, I drove down today and really liked it. A lot of interesting prewar stuff. Spent a few hours wandering around, bought a few nice additions to my Gehrig collection, and won a few shekhels in the casino. And watched some football and had a great bloody mary to boot. A good day.

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

had a great bloody mary to boot. A good day.

+ one million.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Jokes aside, I drove down today and really liked it. A lot of interesting prewar stuff. Spent a few hours wandering around, bought a few nice additions to my Gehrig collection, and won a few shekhels in the casino. And watched some football and had a great bloody mary to boot. A good day.

I think we met then, I had a guy looking for Gehrig stuff but he did spend a little time looking at my other prewar. I was booth 710 with all the blond wood showcases.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I think we met then, I had a guy looking for Gehrig stuff but he did spend a little time looking at my other prewar. I was booth 710 with all the blond wood showcases.

Damm, I would introduced myself if I saw it was you. Very sorry about that. Great card you send me a few days ago. Next time I will say hello.

[Bobsbats]

I wont attend the December show anymore and to be honest, I think the way its currently run, I hope that its doesn't close. I'd love to see Hunt downsize the show, and bring it back to the Old Willow Grove type show. While I know that will never happen, the dealers that I spoke with were not happy and expressed it when asked.

[bigfish]

I am hoping this show turns around. It has been losing quality dealers since its takeover. Maybe they will offer discounted table fees for an upcoming show to see if they can generate some interest from dealers who have said they will never return?????

[glynparson]

I live 45 minutes away and have not done it in years for many of the reasons discussed in previous threads about this show.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I live 45 minutes away and have not done it in years for many of the reasons discussed in previous threads about this show.

Does Hunt still say if you set up at another local show you can't set up at theirs? I thought that was crazy.

[basesareempty]

Originally Posted by Leon

Does Hunt still say if you set up at another local show you can't set up at theirs? I thought that was crazy.

Their online dealer application I believe still reflects this policy! I agree its stupid for then to alienate or strong arm dealers in this manner.

[basesareempty]

Also did I read it right that PSA was not in attendance?

[x2drich2000]

PSA was there, however, if you were standing at the PSA booth, all the tables to the right of them along the same wall were not.

DJ

[Cobra Kai]

Originally Posted by basesareempty

Their online dealer application I believe still reflects this policy! I agree its stupid for then to alienate or strong arm dealers in this manner.

Why would Hunt do this? Doesn't make any sense.

[basesareempty]

Originally Posted by Cobra Kai

Why would Hunt do this? Doesn't make any sense.

They don't want any competition in the Greater Philadelphia area and are willing to punish any dealers who dare exhibit their wares at a competitors show. Ever wonder why 707 is no longer there after many years exhibiting under the former owners.

[Sportsnutcards]

The Show was down about 12 tables, including some of the larger dealers... Autograph list was the worst one ever, and neither Beckett or SGC were grading, overall a very disappointing show.

[glynparson]

Beckett chose to grade at the store owned by the same people that run wheatland auctions over grading at the philly show. Chucks shop is about an hour from valley forge and they were grading there on Friday. That's how bad the show has become under the current regime. and yes Leon that's one reason I won't do the show. Bob schmirer made that demand in the 1980s but willow grove was worth that compromise. Not so sure valley forge ever was.

[Snapolit1]

Putting the arm on people not to attend nearby shows seems like directly the wrong message to send by an auction house whose very existence is dependent on the hobby growing and prospering. Just sayin'.

[judsonhamlin]

I've been going to these shows since the Motor Lodge days and followed the show to Ft. Washington (even wrote a review of the show there for VCBC) and Reading. Since the move to Valley Forge, I've continued the pilgrimage from central Jersey and have generally enjoyed the shows even when they haven't been great. But I've missed the last two and I think have finally come to the conclusion that it just isn't worth the trip. I was Christmas shopping in New Hope/Lambertville and was all ready to go over on Friday when I realized that I'd be seeing most of the same cards for the nth time and that the dealers that didn't put prices on their cards wouldn't start now and the dismissive/bored dealers wouldn't begin engaging with their customers and so on. So I drove home instead.
Sad but nothing stays the same forever.

[skelly]

Out of curiosity, how much is a table? Is it comparable to the prices at White Plains, or are they much more.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

I've been going to these shows since the Motor Lodge days and followed the show to Ft. Washington (even wrote a review of the show there for VCBC) and Reading. Since the move to Valley Forge, I've continued the pilgrimage from central Jersey and have generally enjoyed the shows even when they haven't been great. But I've missed the last two and I think have finally come to the conclusion that it just isn't worth the trip. I was Christmas shopping in New Hope/Lambertville and was all ready to go over on Friday when I realized that I'd be seeing most of the same cards for the nth time and that the dealers that didn't put prices on their cards wouldn't start now and the dismissive/bored dealers wouldn't begin engaging with their customers and so on. So I drove home instead.
Sad but nothing stays the same forever.

Well, I know of myself and two other guys who just started doing the show this year. None of us are world class, but I have a nice showcase or two full of clearly marked prewar, graded and raw. Is the show what it was 15 years ago? No. But there are good guys there who try very hard to make their little corner of the show an enjoyable place to visit. It bothers me when I hear "it's the same stuff every time" when I only started doing it this year and my inventory is VASTLY different each time. This time I had t202's from PSA 3 - 5, T201's from 4 -5 and e126's that had never been there before as well as some new T205's and 6's including some hall of famers. If you are going to compare it to "the good old days" then yes, I agree it pales in comparison, however if you want to go it's not like you're wasting your $8. Instead of bitching about the same old dealers selling the same old stuff, maybe look at some of the guys you don't recognize!

[basesareempty]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Well, I know of myself and two other guys who just started doing the show this year. None of us are world class, but I have a nice showcase or two full of clearly marked prewar, graded and raw. Is the show what it was 15 years ago? No. But there are good guys there who try very hard to make their little corner of the show an enjoyable place to visit. It bothers me when I hear "it's the same stuff every time" when I only started doing it this year and my inventory is VASTLY different each time. This time I had t202's from PSA 3 - 5, T201's from 4 -5 and e126's that had never been there before as well as some new T205's and 6's including some hall of famers. If you are going to compare it to "the good old days" then yes, I agree it pales in comparison, however if you want to go it's not like you're wasting your $8. Instead of bitching about the same old dealers selling the same old stuff, maybe look at some of the guys you don't recognize!

I agree!

[judsonhamlin]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Well, I know of myself and two other guys who just started doing the show this year. None of us are world class, but I have a nice showcase or two full of clearly marked prewar, graded and raw. Is the show what it was 15 years ago? No. But there are good guys there who try very hard to make their little corner of the show an enjoyable place to visit. It bothers me when I hear "it's the same stuff every time" when I only started doing it this year and my inventory is VASTLY different each time. This time I had t202's from PSA 3 - 5, T201's from 4 -5 and e126's that had never been there before as well as some new T205's and 6's including some hall of famers. If you are going to compare it to "the good old days" then yes, I agree it pales in comparison, however if you want to go it's not like you're wasting your $8. Instead of bitching about the same old dealers selling the same old stuff, maybe look at some of the guys you don't recognize!

I'm not sure that legitimate criticism of a show amounts to 'bitching' but would agree that there are still good points to the show. Catching up with people like Al C. and Kevin Savage is always good. And it's not to say I don't find anything to fill my eclectic, mid-grade collection goals, even if I wind up coming home with more money than I spend. But I stand by my observations. On Fridays, there are consistently tables that are unoccupied, or staffed by relatives or friends who can't help with pricing or opening a display case. I can describe several cards that have been to the show more than many dealers. I'm not a refractor, memorabilia or autograph guy, so those are not a draw for me either. So for three hours round-trip on the NJ and Pennsy Turnpikes on a Friday night, the cost has begun to outweigh the benefits. Now, if you will be at the January PAL show, I'll be happy to visit your table and spend my collecting dollars there, and enjoy a new show that I hope succeeds.

[Snapolit1]

I'm sure there is not a single long running show in the country that is "as good as it used to be" in the memory of people who have cherished memories of it. I went, first time, and I thought it was pretty good. Big enough that I found some stuff I was interested in. But the idea that the people running it are strong arming people who are trying to make a few bucks and keep the hobby alive is a crock of bs.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'm sure there is not a single long running show in the country that is "as good as it used to be" in the memory of people who have cherished memories of it. I went, first time, and I thought it was pretty good. Big enough that I found some stuff I was interested in. But the idea that the people running it are strong arming people who are trying to make a few bucks and keep the hobby alive is a crock of bs.

Agree. And there also isn't another show, I am aware of, that says if you set up at theirs you can't set up at others. I would never, ever set up at that show and probably wouldn't attend it for that reason. But everyone has their own opinion of stuff. Happy collecting.....

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

My rant wasn't directed at any one person, so please don't anyone take it personally.

As for the "strong-arm" tactics. Right or wrong there was a very specific reason for it. A promoter tried to create a rival show in Oaks less than 20 miles away. They courted the same big dealers and scheduled their show often the week immediately before the Philly Show.

There are several show promoters who do the Philly show and promote their own shows (not including my fledgling efforts) and there has never been an issue with that, or dealers doing both their shows and the Philly show. It was specifically in response to someone who tried to torpedo them. It's a free market, but their reaction is also part of the free market. I'm not defending it, but I do understand it.

[basesareempty]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'm sure there is not a single long running show in the country that is "as good as it used to be" in the memory of people who have cherished memories of it. I went, first time, and I thought it was pretty good. Big enough that I found some stuff I was interested in. But the idea that the people running it are strong arming people who are trying to make a few bucks and keep the hobby alive is a crock of bs.

The following is from their Rules for Exhibiting.

26. Any dealer who wishes to exhibit at the Philly Show may not exhibit at competing sports show with (50) miles of the Valley Forge venue
within (60) days of a Philly Show date. (NOTE: Per dealer inquiries, this policy applies to major sports convention shows only. Small ‘mall’
shows and dealer ‘shop’ appearance shows are not applicable).

Seems like strong arm tactics to me!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

My rant wasn't directed at any one person, so please don't anyone take it personally.

As for the "strong-arm" tactics. Right or wrong there was a very specific reason for it. A promoter tried to create a rival show in Oaks less than 20 miles away. They courted the same big dealers and scheduled their show often the week immediately before the Philly Show.

There are several show promoters who do the Philly show and promote their own shows (not including my fledgling efforts) and there has never been an issue with that, or dealers doing both their shows and the Philly show. It was specifically in response to someone who tried to torpedo them. It's a free market, but their reaction is also part of the free market. I'm not defending it, but I do understand it.

Yeah, having read the actual policy it is a little more nuanced than I imagined. Limited both in time and to types of shows. I kind of see both sides, but I'm not a dealer tying to get by so I'm probably not a good person to judge all of this.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

I've been going to these shows since the Motor Lodge days and followed the show to Ft. Washington (even wrote a review of the show there for VCBC) and Reading. Since the move to Valley Forge, I've continued the pilgrimage from central Jersey and have generally enjoyed the shows even when they haven't been great. But I've missed the last two and I think have finally come to the conclusion that it just isn't worth the trip. I was Christmas shopping in New Hope/Lambertville and was all ready to go over on Friday when I realized that I'd be seeing most of the same cards for the nth time and that the dealers that didn't put prices on their cards wouldn't start now and the dismissive/bored dealers wouldn't begin engaging with their customers and so on. So I drove home instead.
Sad but nothing stays the same forever.

Hi Judson

T'is a shame we didn't meet up last Friday when you were in the New Hope (PA) area. I live north of New Hope, and I would have
taken you on a more direct (and scenic) route to Valley Forge. No NJ or Pennsy Pikes needed to get there.

Anyhow, I was at the Show Friday, and in terms of finding some 19th Century stuff and certain T206 rare backs (American Beauty,
Lenox, red Hindu, Uzit, etc.) the show was disappointing. But, it was great talking with dealers Kevin Savage, Brian Dec, Dave Czuba,
William Chappelle, Dick DeCoursey, and John Goodman.
There was definitely less dealer set-ups than there has been in the past. Several of the veteran dealers who always have some great
stuff do not set up at this show any more.


TED Z
.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Leon

Agree. And there also isn't another show, I am aware of, that says if you set up at theirs you can't set up at others. I would never, ever set up at that show and probably wouldn't attend it for that reason. But everyone has their own opinion of stuff. Happy collecting.....

+1

Economically, there is no reason to look for reasons to ban dealers from doing your shows. The only acceptable reason I have ever have is at our 1st location being sold out of tables. Thanks to an innovative dealer, we were even able to fix that for the end of our run at the Southfork Hotel.

I have 16 more tables to fill at the Comfort Inn (show on this Saturday FYI) and the only reason I would ever say no to a person is if they set up with nothing but "Broder" type cards which are all unlicensed. other than that, we need all our dealers to have a good experience for our collectors!

That especially means people such as Leon (HI LEON!), whose stock is always evolving and always have new material for each show.

Rich

[ValKehl]

I drove up from No. VA and was at the Show nearly all day on Saturday (only because my wife had taken the car and gone shopping!). It appears to me that the Philly Show has declined to the point that it is now comparable to the Chantilly, VA, Show, which takes place only a few miles from where I live. Like other long-time collectors, I long for the Willow Grove and Ft. Washington Shows of the 1980's and 1990's. I have attended the Philly Show about once a year over recent years, but this may have been my last one. I was able to pick up my winnings from the recent LOTG and H&S Auctions, and I used the shipping costs I saved to help justify my going to the show. Al C., it's always great to chat with you! I also enjoyed chatting with DJ, Steve H., several dealers, and a few collectors I didn't know. I found next to nothing for my collection - only bought two very inexpensive cards, one of them from a collector who was trying to sell his stuff to dealers.
Val

[Jewish-collector]

I too have been going to this Philly show since the Motor Lodge days and followed the show to Ft. Washington and then Reading and now to Valley Forge. I used to stay overnight on occasion at the Ft. Washington show because I needed 2 days to get through the whole show.

For this past show, I was there most of Friday. The best part of the show was talking to Al of LOTG. The show really has substantially gone downhill. This particular day that I was there was probably the worst Friday I've ever been to at this show. The number of dealers was significantly down from previous shows there. There was a table with lounge chairs in the middle of the show where 2 or 3 tables could have been. Plus, there were tables with the dealer's name tag, but nothing there. I don't know if they were bringing their cards on Saturday and/or Sunday. It seemed that there was a lot of open space where tables had been in previous shows.

It might be the beginning of the end. I hope not, though.