Question For eBay Sellers

[braves_43]

So, a few weeks ago I sold a $32 lot of cards, nothing major, but I am curious what everyone's opinions are. I shipped with tracking and it says "delivered, left on porch or doorstep." Buyer opened a claim today saying he never received the cards. Is there any way I can win this or prove anything or am I going to have to refund the money? I know I am responsible for making sure the item is delivered, so I'm guessing that means all the way to the buyer's hands?

Thank you in advance.

[jfkheat]

The tracking says it was delivered so you should be covered. Have you responded to the claim yet? eBay can look at the tracking and seen that the package was delivered.
James

[conor912]

I believe, in eBay land, your responsibility ends when the PO scans it as "deliverd". If it disappeared off of the buyers porch, it's on him to deal with it as stolen property.

[deeg23]

I echo what the others have said. You're going to be fine since the tracking says delivered!

[braves_43]

Thank you, that's what I was hoping the opinions would be. I did not respond to the claim yet, I wanted to get some thoughts first. I am going to do just that and recommend the buyer contact his local PD and/or post office to report the package stolen.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by braves_43

Thank you, that's what I was hoping the opinions would be. I did not respond to the claim yet, I wanted to get some thoughts first. I am going to do just that and recommend the buyer contact his local PD and/or post office to report the package stolen.

I would suggest you simply respond to the claim by entering the tracking number and add a simple message stating "USPS tracking indicates the package was delivered on (insert date)"

Adding additional text or advice or conversing with the buyer inside of the claim can occasionally backfire.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I would suggest you simply respond to the claim by entering the tracking number and add a simple message stating "USPS tracking indicates the package was delivered on (insert date)"

Adding additional text or advice or conversing with the buyer inside of the claim can occasionally backfire.

Agree that too much conversation is a bad thing. I always include tracking and haven't had a problem yet but if I do have a problem I am assuming that tracking history covers my side. Let us know how this turns out as you know what they say about assuming.

[braves_43]

Well I responded to the claim before seeing the additional responses here about not divulging too much information or not offering advice and my response was probably a little too wordy than it should have been but I don't believe I said anything damaging. Besides what you all recommended, I suggested that he contact his local police department and/or post office.

His response was, "The local police or Post Office can't and won't do anything about this. I would prefer the cards but will accept a full refund but nothing less."

Apparently he didn't even try and he's sounding more demanding now. It's just a $30-something dollar lot of cards but I'm standing my ground. I don't do a large volume of sales on eBay so the few sales I do complete, I'd prefer to keep the money, lol.

My response to his last response above was simply, "I'm sorry, but USPS tracking indicates the package was delivered on January 6th, 2017 at 5:25 PM."

Something similar happened to me a couple months ago which is why I am not backing down on this one. I sold a $40 PSA graded card and shipped the same way to Illinois. A couple weeks later the same thing happened - buyer opened a claim stating the item was never received. Tracking on that one showed that it was scanned "Out for Delivery" but never scanned as "Delivered." I contacted the post office out in Illinois and they apologized and said that due to the cold temperatures their carriers were having issues with the batteries in their scanners dying on their routes. I figured I was screwed and refunded that guy even though I felt that was a complete scam. I was telling that story (not complaining at all, just making conversation when I was there to ship more cards) to the postal worker at my local post office a few weeks ago and she said that was not handled properly at all by the post office in Illinois and that was a poor excuse. She got their postmaster involved and they were actually extremely helpful and were following up on it for me, however, I haven't heard anything in several days about a possible resolution. The effort was still nice.

I'll let you all know how this one shakes out...

[savedfrommyspokes]

Whatever you do, absolutely stand your ground. I would not send another message to the buyer. Strictly go through ebay only....they will side with you. I would give ebay a call, point out the tracking information shows as delivered and ask them to resolve this case immediately. If the buyer then leaves some sort of unjustified bad feedback, call back and speak to a live person at ebay and they will remove it.

[egri]

To add to all of this, I'd block the buyer from your future auctions. He's too much of a hassle.

[Buythatcard]

I had this happen several times over the years. If tracking says that it was delivered, eBay will usually favor on the Sellers side.

Of course, if tracking details says that it is in La La Land for several weeks and has not reached its destination, you will have to refund the Buyer. That is why you should always take out insurance.

I am going thru a similar claim as we speak. Buyer opened claim yesterday saying he never received item and he wants a refund. First of all, he just paid on Saturday. Card was mailed next business day which was Monday. He opened claim on Thursday (less than 3 days after card was sent). When I checked tracking details, it said that it was delivered to his front door on Weds.(2 days after I mailed it)

I responded to Buyer who of course did not respond and I also responded to the actual claim. You need to do this so that eBay can look into the individual case.

If they don't go in your favor, immediately call them and protest. Just as I will do.

[Zach Wheat]

This exact scenario happened to me, except I was on the other side. I was the buyer. The transaction value was $700. The card was shipped insured with tracking but for whatever reason signature confirmation was not requested. I never received the card, although tracking indicated the card was delivered to my address.

As a buyer, if this happens to you, the case will not be decided in your favor since tracking indicates the package was delivered. However, if you go through eBay help and talk to customer service they will initiate reimbursement if you open a case with IC3.GOV - where internet crimes are reported and provide proof you have reported this crime to the postmaster.

eBay will send you a link where you can upload documents proving you've filed a case. On an exception basis i.e. read once or possible twice - you will likely get your money back.

As a buyer always ask for the seller to require Signature Receipt upon delivery to prevent this.

Z

[braves_43]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Whatever you do, absolutely stand your ground. I would not send another message to the buyer. Strictly go through ebay only....they will side with you. I would give ebay a call, point out the tracking information shows as delivered and ask them to resolve this case immediately. If the buyer then leaves some sort of unjustified bad feedback, call back and speak to a live person at ebay and they will remove it.

All communication has been through eBay via the Resolution Center. No private eBay messages have been exchanged. I will see how this plays out for a couple days and then call eBay if I need to. I will certainly call eBay if I receive unjust feedback.

[braves_43]

Originally Posted by egri

To add to all of this, I'd block the buyer from your future auctions. He's too much of a hassle.

Yes, he's definitely getting blocked, just like the last guy in Illinois. Not worth the hassle at all.

[braves_43]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I had this happen several times over the years. If tracking says that it was delivered, eBay will usually favor on the Sellers side.

Of course, if tracking details says that it is in La La Land for several weeks and has not reached its destination, you will have to refund the Buyer. That is why you should always take out insurance.

I am going thru a similar claim as we speak. Buyer opened claim yesterday saying he never received item and he wants a refund. First of all, he just paid on Saturday. Card was mailed next business day which was Monday. He opened claim on Thursday (less than 3 days after card was sent). When I checked tracking details, it said that it was delivered to his front door on Weds.(2 days after I mailed it)

I responded to Buyer who of course did not respond and I also responded to the actual claim. You need to do this so that eBay can look into the individual case.

If they don't go in your favor, immediately call them and protest. Just as I will do.

That sounds pretty ridiculous. I usually don't take out insurance on my low dollar sales like these. I have sold a few cards for several hundred dollars and those packages all got insurance. Good luck with your case!

[aloondilana]

You are lucky the buyer didn't say he received an empty package, then you would really have to fight it out.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

You are lucky the buyer didn't say he received an empty package, then you would really have to fight it out.

About 10 years ago, I had a buyer who said the envelope was slit on the bottom and the item was missing. I sent him his refund which was only .99 cents.

About 2 years later, I get an email from a buyer who said that he received an envelope with a slit on the bottom and the item was missing.

I said to myself, that this sounds real familiar. Thankfully, I keep records of every transaction I have ever done over the last 15 years. I looked up the name of the first buyer who had the same issue and it turned out to be the same person.

I confronted him via eMail saying that this sounds all too familiar. He never responded and of course I blocked him.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

You are lucky the buyer didn't say he received an empty package, then you would really have to fight it out.

This happened to me a couple weeks ago. It was a private sale through this forum. I didn't have any insurance on the card so the USPS wouldn't do anything. I refunded the buyer.
James

[sycks22]

If you add "signature requirement" it'll cost $2.30 and you won't have to worry about it in the future. I understand not using it on lower end cards, but anything over $100 you should.

[braves_43]

Originally Posted by sycks22

If you add "signature requirement" it'll cost $2.30 and you won't have to worry about it in the future. I understand not using it on lower end cards, but anything over $100 you should.

I agree, I will plan on doing that in the future.

[ramram]

Aren't all shipments through USPS covered up to $50 automatically, without purchasing additional insurance?

Rob M

[Jason]

Originally Posted by ramram

Aren't all shipments through USPS covered up to $50 automatically, without purchasing additional insurance?

Rob M

Yes it is for Priority options but there is no insurance on First Class Mail unless you add it.

[nat]

I'm not saying that you should talk to the guy, but sometimes a package will be scanned as delivered... and will get delivered next door. I waited some silly number of weeks for a package to get delivered, figured I'd open a non-ship case, saw that tracking said it was delivered, and it turns out my next-door neighbor had it (and hadn't gotten around to giving it to me).

[braves_43]

Originally Posted by nat

I'm not saying that you should talk to the guy, but sometimes a package will be scanned as delivered... and will get delivered next door. I waited some silly number of weeks for a package to get delivered, figured I'd open a non-ship case, saw that tracking said it was delivered, and it turns out my next-door neighbor had it (and hadn't gotten around to giving it to me).

I just sent him a message asking if he has checked with his neighbors.

[sterlingfox]

A while back, some of my packages would be marked "shipped" via tracking, but I wouldn't actually get them for a few days (one time it took 5 extra days plus a phone call). In all cases, I eventually received my package. Probably a USPS employee marking things as shipped, even though they were behind in delivering mail. Needless to say, that person is no longer delivering our mail and that issue hasn't happened since.

[glchen]

This has happened to me before, but as others have said, as long as the tracking shows Delivered (and the declared value is under $250 due to Paypal), then you are good to go, and will win the case. For the buyer's side, I believe ebay will allow one exemption per account, where ebay will still refund the buyer even if the package tracking shows delivered (and this will not come out of the seller's account).

Regarding putting signature confirmation and insurance on every package or over $100, this has been debated among sellers. There's a school of thought where if you don't put insurance (or signature confirm under $250) on packages and instead use the money saved and put it into an "insurance" bank, then you will come out ahead in the long run where you pay out any claims you need out of your "bank." For myself, I usually just put everything in a Priority Mail small flat rate box with signature confirm if it is $250 or over, and only add additional insurance if it is $400 or over.

[ramram]

I've heard that getting compensation for "collectibles" can be very difficult to obtain from USPS unless you were to have some legitimate appraisal information, regardless of how much insurance you purchased from them.

Rob M

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I hear this all the time, but the one claim I filed was simple, I showed what the item was purchased for, that was it's value, they reimbursed me no sweat. I was the seller

[1952boyntoncollector]

when people say 'its just 30 or whatever dollar's then its not 'just' 30 dollars...if it was you would just send the money back since its so little, or the guy wouldnt complain because its so little..... its obviously not 'just' 30 dollars with the time and effort going on so i would back off that type of statement. and just acknowledge its a real issue you are concerned about.

did you purchase insurance on the cards or not..... i know i would not have because afterall its only 30 dollars

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I hear this all the time, but the one claim I filed was simple, I showed what the item was purchased for, that was it's value, they reimbursed me no sweat. I was the seller

Out of curiosity, did the USPS let you keep the damaged card, or did they take it as part of the insurance claim? For example, you might have a card in a PSA 3 holder. Even though it was packaged well, the package gets crushed, and now the card is in a broken holder and will only grade PSA 1. However, even in a PSA 1 holder, it might still be worth $100.

[braves_43]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

when people say 'its just 30 or whatever dollar's then its not 'just' 30 dollars...if it was you would just send the money back since its so little, or the guy wouldnt complain because its so little..... its obviously not 'just' 30 dollars with the time and effort going on so i would back off that type of statement. and just acknowledge its a real issue you are concerned about.

did you purchase insurance on the cards or not..... i know i would not have because afterall its only 30 dollars

It is a real issue, which is why I came here for some advice and input. I only made the "it's just $30" comment to kind of elude to the fact that this was more about principle of the matter than the value of the transaction, that's all.

And no, I did not purchase insurance on the package. It was shipped first class with tracking only.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by glchen

Out of curiosity, did the USPS let you keep the damaged card, or did they take it as part of the insurance claim? For example, you might have a card in a PSA 3 holder. Even though it was packaged well, the package gets crushed, and now the card is in a broken holder and will only grade PSA 1. However, even in a PSA 1 holder, it might still be worth $100.

was a lost card, so if they ever found it I imagine they took possession and it was sold in some government auction of some sort.

[ValKehl]

[QUOTE=Zach Wheat;1626981]This exact scenario happened to me, except I was on the other side. I was the buyer. The transaction value was $700. The card was shipped insured with tracking but for whatever reason signature confirmation was not requested. I never received the card, although tracking indicated the card was delivered to my address.
...
QUOTE]

Zach, it is my understanding that for anything insured for more than $500 (was $200 not too long ago), the USPS carrier is required to obtain a signature upon delivery, regardless of whether or not the shipper has purchased signature confirmation. In fact, there is a specific USPS insurance form to be used for values of "$500 and under." Some years ago, when I was shipping a high value card, I asked the USPS clerk if there was any reason for me to purchase signature confirmation in addition to insurance, and the clerk's answer was "not really." If the intended recipient claimed non receipt, when I then filed an insurance claim, the USPS would have to produce the signature obtained upon delivery - the USPS tracking showing the item was delivered would not be sufficient to deny my claim. If I am wrong about this, or if this is no longer the way the USPS handles insured high value shipments, someone please let me know.
Val

[varska]

As I understand it, sig confirm is supposed to be automatically included in Priority Mail shipments insured over 500, but the reality can be different. I recently shipped a high value card insured for about 4000 and the buyer told me that the mail carrier just left it in the mailbox. Fortunately the buyer received the card and there were no issues.

[Buythatcard]

Just need to rant.

I've been selling on eBay for 15 years and I have paid my share of fees. I have perfect feedback. Yet, I still get treated like a seller who wants to pull one over on someone.

Earlier this week a buyer opened a claim saying he never received item and he wants a refund. First of all, he just paid on Saturday. Card was mailed next business day which was Monday. He opened claim on Thursday (less than 3 days after card was sent). When I checked tracking details, it said that it was delivered to his front door on Weds.(2 days after I mailed it)

Buyer claims that someone hacked into his account and changed address.

Last night eBay, closed the case and said that Buyer didn't respond in 30 days. Kind of odd considering that the case was only opened 2 days ago.
I went to look at my Paypal account and saw that they refunded the full amount to the Buyer. So, not only does someone else get the card, I lose my money.

That's when I completely lost it. I called eBay and got some person who I could not understand. He spoke a mile a minute with a thick accent. I told him to slow down 4 times until I just said let me speak to a supervisor. He put on his supervisor who also spoke with a thick accent but was a little more intelligible. I explained my situation and she said that I need to speak to someone at Paypal. She would transfer me and participate in the conversation. She forwards my call to Paypal and immediately she disappeared. I was on hold for 25 minutes at Paypal when another dummy came on and said that she needs to transfer me to another department but that department closed 6 minutes ago. I was getting more and more pissed by the minute. I asked for a direct phone # but she said that she can't give it to me. I said how the hell am I suppose to call if I don't have a phone #. No response. So I asked again. She said call Paypal and ask them to connect you to the Limitation department. I asked for Paypal's phone number. I had to ask her to repeat it 4 times because she rambled on so fast.

I do not understand why the Buyer won this case. I will call again today and will give them Hell!

This just puts another stake in my heart and I am getting closer and closer to leaving eBay for good.

eBay/Paypal Suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Just need to rant.

I've been selling on eBay for 15 years and I have paid my share of fees. I have perfect feedback. Yet, I still get treated like a seller who wants to pull one over on someone.

Earlier this week a buyer opened a claim saying he never received item and he wants a refund. First of all, he just paid on Saturday. Card was mailed next business day which was Monday. He opened claim on Thursday (less than 3 days after card was sent). When I checked tracking details, it said that it was delivered to his front door on Weds.(2 days after I mailed it)

Buyer claims that someone hacked into his account and changed address.

Last night eBay, closed the case and said that Buyer didn't respond in 30 days. Kind of odd considering that the case was only opened 2 days ago.
I went to look at my Paypal account and saw that they refunded the full amount to the Buyer. So, not only does someone else get the card, I lose my money.

That's when I completely lost it. I called eBay and got some person who I could not understand. He spoke a mile a minute with a thick accent. I told him to slow down 4 times until I just said let me speak to a supervisor. He put on his supervisor who also spoke with a thick accent but was a little more intelligible. I explained my situation and she said that I need to speak to someone at Paypal. She would transfer me and participate in the conversation. She forwards my call to Paypal and immediately she disappeared. I was on hold for 25 minutes at Paypal when another dummy came on and said that she needs to transfer me to another department but that department closed 6 minutes ago. I was getting more and more pissed by the minute. I asked for a direct phone # but she said that she can't give it to me. I said how the hell am I suppose to call if I don't have a phone #. No response. So I asked again. She said call Paypal and ask them to connect you to the Limitation department. I asked for Paypal's phone number. I had to ask her to repeat it 4 times because she rambled on so fast.

I do not understand why the Buyer won this case. I will call again today and will give them Hell!

This just puts another stake in my heart and I am getting closer and closer to leaving eBay for good.

eBay/Paypal Suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should let the buyer know you are going to file a police report in his hometown for theft, and that he should do the same for identify theft.

See how he responds.

That sounds horrible. I do hear over and over again on the Ebay seller boards, sometimes you have to keep calling Ebay over and over until you get a U.S. based call center, where they seem to go by a different script if you are lucky enough to connect with them.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

You should let the buyer know you are going to file a police report in his hometown for theft, and that he should do the same for identify theft.

See how he responds.

That sounds horrible. I do hear over and over again on the Ebay seller boards, sometimes you have to keep calling Ebay over and over until you get a U.S. based call center, where they seem to go by a different script if you are lucky enough to connect with them.

Well, I called Paypal this morning and I did get a U.S. based call center. They told me that they do not understand why the case was closed so fast without an investigation. They told me that the case would be escalated and they will get back to me again in 24-48 hours. It's not over yet. I will be keeping close tabs on this buyer.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

was a lost card, so if they ever found it I imagine they took possession and it was sold in some government auction of some sort.

Thanks for the info. I wanted to know because a few years back, I won a T200 Fatima Pittsburgh Pirates team card with Honus Wagner in poor condition. However, when I received the card, it was even more damaged and ripped. The seller asked me to send the card back so that he could initiate a postal claim, so I always thought it was unfortunate that it was possible that card could be "lost" forever once it was given to the postal service. In addition, I won a W560 uncut sheet in pretty nice condition from an auction house. Similar situation where it was damaged on arrival and the AH stated that they would send it in for a postal claim. The sheet was only creased a few times, so it was still very collectible, just not worth what I bid for it.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Well, I called Paypal this morning and I did get a U.S. based call center. They told me that they do not understand why the case was closed so fast without an investigation. They told me that the case would be escalated and they will get back to me again in 24-48 hours. It's not over yet. I will be keeping close tabs on this buyer.

Hang in there, Howard. For ebay/paypal, many times it is just who you talk to. I've had a similar situation like what you've experienced before but the reverse where the seller sold me a card that was a reprint, which was not specified in the listing. Somehow the seller won the case, which incensed me. What happens is that the person calls ebay, and manages to convince whatever rep they talk to rule the case in favor of them even though it obviously should not. I'm guessing that happened for you also. In my situation, I did call back and talk to a supervisor who also did not know why they ruled the case in favor of the other party. They refunded me my fee, but did not take the funds from the original party either, so ebay basically just ate it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by braves_43

It is a real issue, which is why I came here for some advice and input. I only made the "it's just $30" comment to kind of elude to the fact that this was more about principle of the matter than the value of the transaction, that's all.

And no, I did not purchase insurance on the package. It was shipped first class with tracking only.

Right so i would say thats 'its just $30' but the matter is very important to me. If it was over $1.00 I do not think principal would matter. I just have seen a lot of fight back and forth when both sides say 'its just so an so dollars and i dont care' but their actions speak much louder than their words.

[braves_43]

Well, I am happy to report that the case has been closed and ruled in my favor. After getting no where with the buyer, I finally told him we were at an impasse and I was not refunding his money. I actually took it upon myself to escalate the dispute and have eBay Customer Service step in and make a decision. In less than an hour, they ruled in my favor thanks to the tracking information and released the funds in my PayPal account.

Thank you to everyone for their help!