NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-03-2017, 04:49 PM
whitesoxfan3579 whitesoxfan3579 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Default Desert Shield Help Please

Fellow community members,

It has been a long time since I posted in this forum. I hope you guys can help me out.

I recently purchased a 1991 Desert Shield Chipper Jones card. I love this parallel set and I agree with what I read on the PSA website about these desert shield cards - "Topps had a great idea and brought a new meaning to the term "Pre-War cards." I am excited to have found a raw copy because most of these cards are graded when they do surface. I made this purchase on the bay and this seller has also listed many other desert shield cards for sale. Also, he appears to own a memorabilia shop in the south and his feedback on ebay is impeccable.

I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of this card, however I know there are a lot of risks involved in purchasing a raw high end card and I want to ensure I am not overlooking anything.

Right off the bat the logo has a rounded bottom as you can clearly see. Also, the tip of the lowest leaf is right in between the letters "R" and "A." I actually just ordered a UV flashlight so I can make certain that the back of the card fluoresces after hitting it with black light. I do not know if it worth purchasing a loupe that I may not use much to determine if I can see a clear row of stars in the flag.

Please check out the scans below of the card and let me know what you think. Do you think this card is authentic? Is there anything else I should consider as well?





Thank you in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:49 AM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,776
Default

Can you give a better scan of the shield? It is hard to make out any detail in the pics...

Z
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-04-2017, 10:14 AM
58pinson's Avatar
58pinson 58pinson is offline
Al Wright
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 201
Default

With the understood proviso that I'am the furthest thing from an authenticity judge, I went to my PC and pulled my raw copy of this card. It, and a Tony Gwynn were given to me by a work buddy's son who was in the military at that time, although not deployed overseas. Your card looks like a dead ringer for mine. The only slight difference I see is on my copy the vertical red line on the right side of the card is mostly visible as it runs under the shield banner, while on yours I cannot see the line. This could be a function of the photo. As Zach Wheat has said a better look at the shield would be helpful. I would wager your card is legit.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2017, 10:25 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,767
Default

Looks good to me. I would be worried if the card said 'Larry Jones'
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2017, 11:46 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 9,150
Default

I have a set that I am happy with but if I were looking for advice on it I would go to Zach above
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-04-2017, 12:35 PM
JustinD's Avatar
JustinD JustinD is offline
Ju$tin D@v3n.por+
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham, Mi
Posts: 2,884
Default

Definitely looks good to me.

I think the condition issues are the reason it was not graded. I would leave it that way as it is better with modern in my mind to leave raw than have a mid-grade if you ever wanted to part with it.
__________________
- Justin D.


Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander.

Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:30 PM
whitesoxfan3579 whitesoxfan3579 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
Can you give a better scan of the shield? It is hard to make out any detail in the pics...

Z
sure, thank you for asking. The file size is too large so I do not think I can attach the high res (2400 DPI) JPEG that I just scanned, however I uploaded this to photobucket (like I did previously with the 300 DPI JPEG) and I am copying and pasting the link/image of the high res JPEG directly below:



Thank you in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-04-2017, 04:37 PM
whitesoxfan3579 whitesoxfan3579 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Default

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide your analysis. I scanned the card again (this time with 2400 DPI instead of 300). My understanding is the shield should look the same for each player's card however there may be slight variations in the shield when comparing different players from the same parallel set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58pinson View Post
With the understood proviso that I'am the furthest thing from an authenticity judge, I went to my PC and pulled my raw copy of this card. It, and a Tony Gwynn were given to me by a work buddy's son who was in the military at that time, although not deployed overseas. Your card looks like a dead ringer for mine. The only slight difference I see is on my copy the vertical red line on the right side of the card is mostly visible as it runs under the shield banner, while on yours I cannot see the line. This could be a function of the photo. As Zach Wheat has said a better look at the shield would be helpful. I would wager your card is legit.
lol, thank you. I certainly would not have pulled the trigger if that was the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
Looks good to me. I would be worried if the card said 'Larry Jones'
thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
I have a set that I am happy with but if I were looking for advice on it I would go to Zach above
I appreciate it. Yes, I would not get it graded, which is how I typically prefer my cards, although I understand at times it makes sense to buy graded. The seller described the card as NM and did not provide a great picture. I understand it's probably exmint at best. Your advice makes sense, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinD View Post
Definitely looks good to me.

I think the condition issues are the reason it was not graded. I would leave it that way as it is better with modern in my mind to leave raw than have a mid-grade if you ever wanted to part with it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:45 PM
bobsbbcards's Avatar
bobsbbcards bobsbbcards is offline
Bob F.
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,987
Default

Here's one I sold last year for comparison.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-04-2017, 05:48 PM
bobsbbcards's Avatar
bobsbbcards bobsbbcards is offline
Bob F.
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,987
Default

....and a closeup of the logo on the Ryan:

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-04-2017, 06:07 PM
whitesoxfan3579 whitesoxfan3579 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Default

Wow, I think your scanner is better than mine. Did you use photobucket to upload the scan to the forum? After reviewing your scans and taking into account the other posts so far, I am certainly feeling more confident that the DS Chipper I purchased is legit. I look forward to seeing what Zach (and any others) may have to add. I appreciate your time as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsbbcards View Post
Here's one I sold last year for comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsbbcards View Post
....and a closeup of the logo on the Ryan:

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-05-2017, 04:15 AM
whitesoxfan3579 whitesoxfan3579 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Default

and for the shield itself:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
Can you give a better scan of the shield? It is hard to make out any detail in the pics...

Z
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-05-2017, 06:48 AM
savedfrommyspokes's Avatar
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
member
Larry More.y
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,010
Default

The area where the palm leaves meet the tree has always been a good indicator for me as to the legitimacy of a DS card....this one matches up to any of the legit copies I have ever handled. The counterfeits I have seen, the areas inside the red circles I added to your image are filled in. In the image you provided, these areas are clearly NOT filled in.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ds.jpg (79.0 KB, 256 views)

Last edited by savedfrommyspokes; 05-05-2017 at 06:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-05-2017, 08:18 AM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,776
Default

WhiteSoxFan,

I think your card is good from the images posted. The biggest discrepancies between some of the really good fakes and legit cards - all have to do with the lettering in the embossed area. This is the only detail that is consistently incorrect in the really well done fake DS logos. I guess using the correct font and spacing is hard to duplicate (Legit logo has palm leaf pointing between the "R & A" unlike the fake logo in the illustration below where it points between the "E" & "R"). The letters on your card align up with the spacing on other legit cards.

As first noted by 4Reals and later detailed in the other N54 posts, your card should be a glow back - or printed in the period after they added brighteners to the red ink on the reverse of the card. As discussed in the thread, a high percentage of DS cards (not all, but 99% +/- range) should be glow backs. A legit 1991 Topps DS Chipper card should be printed on sheet "F*" (or the updated "Board F" as noted by the F* on the reverse near the copyright logo) which is consistent with your card.

For reference, following is a pic of a fake DS shield I've uploaded to demonstrate the font & spacing issues.....most notable is the letters "E" & "N" in the word Operation are shifted a half space to the right relative to a legit card. Your card looks good...

Nice card.

Z
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1991 Fake Logo.jpg (44.1 KB, 256 views)

Last edited by Zach Wheat; 05-05-2017 at 01:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-05-2017, 12:33 PM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is online now
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 10,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
WhiteSoxFan,

I think your card is good from the images posted. The biggest discrepancies between some of the really good fakes and legit cards - all have to do with the lettering in the embossed area. This is the only detail that is consistently incorrect in the really well done fake DS logos. I guess using the correct font and spacing is hard to duplicate. The letters on your card align up with the spacing on other legit cards.

As first noted by 4Reals and later detailed in the other N54 posts, your card should be a glow back - or printed in the period after they added brighteners to the red ink on the reverse of the card. As discussed in the thread, a high percentage of DS cards (not all, but 99% +/- range) should be glow backs. A legit 1991 Topps DS Chipper card should be printed on sheet "F*" (or the updated "Board F" as noted by the F* on the reverse near the copyright logo) which is consistent with your card.

For reference, following is a pic of a fake DS shield I've uploaded to demonstrate the font & spacing issues.....most notable is the letters "E" & "N" in the word Operation are shifted a half space to the right relative to a legit card. Your card looks good...

Nice card.

Z
Mr Wheat if you ever want to get rid of that counterfeit card I would be interested.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-05-2017, 01:19 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,776
Default

Aaaah you recognized it was a card of Boggs.....your favorite player. It's yours the next time I get it out of storage....


Z

Last edited by Zach Wheat; 05-05-2017 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-05-2017, 03:17 PM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is online now
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 10,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
Aaaah you recognized it was a card of Boggs.....your favorite player. It's yours the next time I get it out of storage....


Z
Yep you can't hide a Boggs card from me my friend.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-06-2017, 05:54 AM
whitesoxfan3579 whitesoxfan3579 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Default

This is good to know. I appreciate the level of detail you provided. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes View Post
The area where the palm leaves meet the tree has always been a good indicator for me as to the legitimacy of a DS card....this one matches up to any of the legit copies I have ever handled. The counterfeits I have seen, the areas inside the red circles I added to your image are filled in. In the image you provided, these areas are clearly NOT filled in.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-06-2017, 06:04 AM
whitesoxfan3579 whitesoxfan3579 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Default

You really know your stuff, I appreciate it. I feel really good that the card is legit. The Boggs DS logo you uploaded is a great example and I will be certain to refer back to this thread, should I make future DS card purchases (at this time I only have Frank Thomas and Chipper Jones). I was supposed to receive the long wave black light that I previously ordered yesterday, but that is certainly not as important now.

Thank you for your help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
WhiteSoxFan,

I think your card is good from the images posted. The biggest discrepancies between some of the really good fakes and legit cards - all have to do with the lettering in the embossed area. This is the only detail that is consistently incorrect in the really well done fake DS logos. I guess using the correct font and spacing is hard to duplicate (Legit logo has palm leaf pointing between the "R & A" unlike the fake logo in the illustration below where it points between the "E" & "R"). The letters on your card align up with the spacing on other legit cards.

As first noted by 4Reals and later detailed in the other N54 posts, your card should be a glow back - or printed in the period after they added brighteners to the red ink on the reverse of the card. As discussed in the thread, a high percentage of DS cards (not all, but 99% +/- range) should be glow backs. A legit 1991 Topps DS Chipper card should be printed on sheet "F*" (or the updated "Board F" as noted by the F* on the reverse near the copyright logo) which is consistent with your card.

For reference, following is a pic of a fake DS shield I've uploaded to demonstrate the font & spacing issues.....most notable is the letters "E" & "N" in the word Operation are shifted a half space to the right relative to a legit card. Your card looks good...

Nice card.

Z
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-01-2020, 06:16 AM
hockeyhockey hockeyhockey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 841
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
WhiteSoxFan,

I think your card is good from the images posted. The biggest discrepancies between some of the really good fakes and legit cards - all have to do with the lettering in the embossed area. This is the only detail that is consistently incorrect in the really well done fake DS logos. I guess using the correct font and spacing is hard to duplicate (Legit logo has palm leaf pointing between the "R & A" unlike the fake logo in the illustration below where it points between the "E" & "R"). The letters on your card align up with the spacing on other legit cards.

As first noted by 4Reals and later detailed in the other N54 posts, your card should be a glow back - or printed in the period after they added brighteners to the red ink on the reverse of the card. As discussed in the thread, a high percentage of DS cards (not all, but 99% +/- range) should be glow backs. A legit 1991 Topps DS Chipper card should be printed on sheet "F*" (or the updated "Board F" as noted by the F* on the reverse near the copyright logo) which is consistent with your card.

For reference, following is a pic of a fake DS shield I've uploaded to demonstrate the font & spacing issues.....most notable is the letters "E" & "N" in the word Operation are shifted a half space to the right relative to a legit card. Your card looks good...

Nice card.

Z
first off, your knowledge of DS is very impressive. have been reading up on it the last few days. picked up a couple of DS cards this week myself. i had read in a few places where people say stud finders work on these packs - i tried that with the actual cards and didn't have success. the best method you think would be UV light to determine florescence? appreciate the insight.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-01-2020, 08:22 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 9,150
Default

I think Zach uses a nail gun rather than a stud finder.

Agree he is a great resource on DS
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-03-2020, 06:48 PM
hockeyhockey hockeyhockey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 841
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
I think Zach uses a nail gun rather than a stud finder.

Agree he is a great resource on DS
i bought one of these DS packs recently, just got it today. i'm not an expert by any stretch on packaging, but i didn't notice anything overly suspicious about the seal. opened up the pack, they all looked to be legit desert shield cards. but i did get 15 total common cards, which raised my eyebrow a bit. suppose it's not impossible to get 15 low end cards in any single pack, but i'm admittedly curious/slightly dubious.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-03-2020, 07:18 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is online now
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 7,117
Default

Remember back then there were 800 cards in the base set. So not getting a star in 15 cards is actually pretty normal.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-03-2020, 08:50 PM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is online now
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 10,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyhockey View Post
i bought one of these DS packs recently, just got it today. i'm not an expert by any stretch on packaging, but i didn't notice anything overly suspicious about the seal. opened up the pack, they all looked to be legit desert shield cards. but i did get 15 total common cards, which raised my eyebrow a bit. suppose it's not impossible to get 15 low end cards in any single pack, but i'm admittedly curious/slightly dubious.
Post some pics of the DS foil logo. It is rare but people did make fake DS packs. I know a guy a couple years ago that opened several packs and they were all fakes. Not saying yours are just saying it has happened.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-03-2020, 09:36 PM
hockeyhockey hockeyhockey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 841
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Post some pics of the DS foil logo. It is rare but people did make fake DS packs. I know a guy a couple years ago that opened several packs and they were all fakes. Not saying yours are just saying it has happened.
when i get a chance later this week i will post (if i can figure it out )
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-03-2020, 09:37 PM
hockeyhockey hockeyhockey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 841
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Remember back then there were 800 cards in the base set. So not getting a star in 15 cards is actually pretty normal.
fair point. that's the one thing i thought about as well. it's not abnormal - per se - just curious.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Desert Shield Packs Zach Wheat Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present) 7 07-07-2015 09:24 PM
Desert Shield Drying up Zach Wheat Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present) 6 09-23-2014 07:51 PM
Desert Shield Zach Wheat Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present) 36 10-02-2013 06:18 AM
91 Topps Desert Shield savedfrommyspokes Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present) 6 01-16-2013 12:28 AM
WTB: 1991 Topps Desert Shield UOFLfan7 1980 & Newer Sports Cards B/S/T 18 07-21-2012 10:25 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:12 PM.


ebay GSB