Hypothetical: when is a debut not a debut?

[packs]

I was still thinking about Dustin Fowler and his Moonlight Graham moment earlier this year. Hypothetically, if you make your debut in a game that gets rained out in the third inning, and then sent down the next day never to reach the majors again, did you ever make your debut?

[bravos4evr]

if they are going to replay the game entirely than no, you didn't because you would not have registered an official plate appearance.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

if they are going to replay the game entirely than no, you didn't because you would not have registered an official plate appearance.

Technically I suppose that's right, but I would still say under the hypothetical above that yes the guy played in the major leagues so it counts. By the way how is it treated if, say, a batter injures himself swinging at strike one and can't continue? Is he out (hard to believe), or does a new batter substitute, inheriting the count? If the latter (which has to be right) then the batter who swung at a pitch doesn't have an official plate appearance either. Yet that player clearly played in an official game.

[howard38]

/

[bravos4evr]

It's minutiae to be sure. But "technically" you have to have appeared in an official game and done something to garner such an appearance. Be it play the field , or hit or throw a pitch or "entered the game".

In a matter of fact, casual way, I'd say that you have to register a statistic to have debuted.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

It's minutiae to be sure. But "technically" you have to have appeared in an official game and done something to garner such an appearance. Be it play the field , or hit or throw a pitch or "entered the game".

In a matter of fact, casual way, I'd say that you have to register a statistic to have debuted.

So what about my hypothetical? Guy swung at a pitch, but I don't think he has an official at bat or any other statistic? But he clearly appeared, no?

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So what about my hypothetical? Guy swung at a pitch, but I don't think he has an official at bat or any other statistic? But he clearly appeared, no?

man IDK.... that's so weird as you wouldn't have a stat.......

I would think the next PA would be considered their debut in the records anyway

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

man IDK.... that's so weird as you wouldn't have a stat.......

I would think the next PA would be considered their debut in the records anyway

Right but it's a hypothetical, suppose that one swing was it for the guy. Did he play in the majors or not? Surely he did, but no stat shows it. Of course, the pitch would show up in the pitcher's pitch count. I guess the solution is to call it a plate appearance with an asterisk or something. Only baseball gives rise to discussions like this.

[JollyElm]

This entire hypothetical is really just a thought experiment.

The game was an 'official' MLB game at the time he entered into play (not a spring training or exhibition game), but only due to the technicality of a rain out did it become a footnote in history. So, as a human being, he clearly made his debut in the majors, whether or not the stats of the day counted in the record books.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

This entire hypothetical is really just a thought experiment.

The game was an 'official' MLB game at the time he entered into play (not a spring training or exhibition game), but only due to the technicality of a rain out did it become a footnote in history. So, as a human being, he clearly made his debut in the majors, whether or not the stats of the day counted in the record books.

But was it? It isn't an official game until 5 innings, no? I agree with you, as I said in my first post, but it's still an interesting thought experiment.

[JollyElm]

Without looking back at all the previous posts (so I may not be saying anything new here)…

If someone asked this guy, "Did you ever play in the major leagues?," he could clearly answer in the affirmative. Say he hit a home run in said game, then answering the question, "Did you ever homer in the major leagues?" could also be answered yes. At the time he homered, it was during an officially sanctioned game and nothing changes that fact. It was something he actually did. Heck, there may even be film footage of it. But does the game (and stats) officially count in the annals of history? Nope, but he did actually and truly play in an MLB game that got called early because of rain.

It's the whole 'Schrödinger's cat' thing. He both played and didn't play in the major leagues.