Andrelton Simmons second in WAR?

[Peter_Spaeth]

According to ESPN he is second in the league (and in all of baseball actually) in WAR behind only Altuve. He's having an OK year but not THAT great -- 11/39/.303/.352 OBP. So what is it about his other numbers that moves his WAR so high?

[packs]

Defense. He's a platinum glove winner. I checked BR though and see he's 9th offensive WAR too. Hard to see it though from his stats.

[KMayUSA6060]

I still can't believe the Braves gave him away...

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

According to ESPN he is second in the league (and in all of baseball actually) in WAR behind only Altuve. He's having an OK year but not THAT great -- 11/39/.303/.352 OBP. So what is it about his other numbers that moves his WAR so high?

Defense and the fact he plays a position in a league that is not loaded with a ton of other guys with offensive punch.

"Wins Above Replacement" appears to signify your value in relation to the position you play, and the average level player at that position............or something like that.

I do think it's rather dubious that he's ranked 9th in the league in Offensive WAR alone (according to Baseball Reference), leading people to think he's having a better offensive season then a ton of other players with far better stats then he has, simply because he plays a different position then they do.

I don't think he's having a better offensive season then Miguel Sano........or even Didi Gregorius, as his Offensive WAR number suggests.

[lrspaulp]

As an Angels fan I honestly could care less about his offense because he is the best defensive SS in baseball. Anything else he does is extra to me.

[chaddurbin]

Defensive value is still a little murky, but you guys should know by now an 800ops is alot more impressive in Anaheim than in NY bos Tex etc. Just look at trout, or beltre. It's not rocket science c'mon.

[bravos4evr]

I wouldn't use Baseball Reference or their convoluted WAR if I were you. The Fangraphs version seems to be the best in WAR per player and how that relates to team wins.

In fWAR Simba is 8th with 4.3 and has a 122 wRC+ and monstrous SS defense.

[Peter_Spaeth]

On ESPN he is now only a tenth of a point behind Altuve. That's insane. However they are calculating this should be looked at.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And now he is in first place. LOL.

[frankbmd]

He's simply the best "Andrelton" in baseball history.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And now he is in first place. LOL.

Same on Baseball Reference.

I don't get it either. He's 6th in the league for Offensive WAR, and apparently he makes Ozzie Smith look like trash defensively in comparison.

It's weird, it seems like some players get a WAR bump simply by existing, and other guys can hit 5 Homers and bat .500 one week, and barely move a blip on the radar.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

On ESPN he is now only a tenth of a point behind Altuve. That's insane. However they are calculating this should be looked at.

This is why WAR is worthless to use when comparing players who play different positions.

[Canofcorn]

The guy is a flat out stud. Gunned another guy down at the plate yesterday in a time game

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by rats60

This is why WAR is worthless to use when comparing players who play different positions.

Just one of many reasons WAR is useless. From my understanding it does somehow get the young kids interested in the game, that is a plus.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Just one of many reasons WAR is useless. From my understanding it does somehow get the young kids interested in the game, that is a plus.

Generally speaking it has seemed like a pretty good stat when I have referred to it, but this is ridiculous -- Simmons now the best player in the majors?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Generally speaking it has seemed like a pretty good stat when I have referred to it, but this is ridiculous -- Simmons now the best player in the majors?

If you are comparing players of the same position during the exact same time frame I like it, otherwise I consider it worthless.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well, look at the top 15 all time. That's not a bad list really, as good as that generated by any other stat I think.


Rank

Player (yrs, age)

Wins Above Replacement

Bats/Throws


1. Babe Ruth+ (22) 183.7 L
2. Cy Young+ (22) 168.5 R
3. Walter Johnson+ (21) 165.6 R
4. Barry Bonds (22) 162.4 L
5. Willie Mays+ (22) 156.2 R
6. Ty Cobb+ (24) 151.1 L
7. Hank Aaron+ (23) 142.6 R
8. Roger Clemens (24) 140.3 R
9. Tris Speaker+ (22) 133.7 L
10. Honus Wagner+ (21) 131.0 R
11. Stan Musial+ (22) 128.1 L
12. Rogers Hornsby+ (23) 127.0 R
13. Eddie Collins+ (25) 123.9 L
14. Ted Williams+ (19) 123.2 L
15. Pete Alexander+ (20) 120.0 R

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by rats60

This is why WAR is worthless to use when comparing players who play different positions.

no, this is EXACTLY what WAR is for, it was created to compare players across leagues, eras and positions. (which is why fangraph's version has league and park and run enviornment adjusted stats in it's formula) There is defensive adjustment by position that accounts for that.

If you want it to look more realistic STOP USING BASEBALL REFERENCE. It's formula is bad, and outdated.

Fangraphs has Simba 11th in batter fWAR (and this includes defense and baserunning) at 4.6, 1.3 behind #1 Altuve & Judge at 5.9. .

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...lter=&players=


I think that the rub is traditional stats people have kinda ignored the value od defense and base running and over focused on batting alone just because of the nature of stats. But Simbais hitting23% above an average player, playing the best defense in baseball and is an above avg base runner. This adds up to tremendous value.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The Fangraphs version seems much more realistic to me in assessing Simmons. It also moves Betts down a bit from the ESPN version, which despite being a Red Sox fan I agree with. It also only rates Arenado 21st with which I agree also; his stats seem very park inflated to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wonder about the pitching part of Fangraphs though. Severino tied with Kershaw?

[packs]

That's the old eye test comes in handy no matter how much people want to down play it.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I wonder about the pitching part of Fangraphs though. Severino tied with Kershaw?

They have similar K/9 and BB/9 and FIP and Severino has a couple more innings. Plus, remember that park and league factors come into play, Severino facing DH's, playing at Yankee Stadium helps him a bit too.