20 retraction high bidder PWCC

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-Topps-H...wAAOSwmJdZhMtR

Hopefully they will fix this.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Only 20.....

The runner-up bidder with 2,670 Feedback, is having a tough time getting over the "hump."

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-Topps-H...wAAOSwmJdZhMtR

Hopefully they will fix this.

There you go again with your agenda beating up on Brentsy. Wait until David James Attorney At Law hears about this!

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-Topps-H...wAAOSwmJdZhMtR

Hopefully they will fix this.

I'm sure they will be all over it, Peter.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by irv

I'm sure they will be all over it, Peter.

Exactly this! This has been going on since King Kong was a monkey.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

I'm sure they will be all over it, Peter.

I presume with 2 days left they will see the thread or one of their fan club will call it to their attention.

[cammb]

What makes you think that the auction house is not aware? It is possible that they know and condone.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by botn

There you go again with your agenda beating up on Brentsy. Wait until David James Attorney At Law hears about this!

Good to see that all is normal on a Saturday night and that you're being your usual douchebag self, Greg.

For the record, I have never defended bid retractions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cammb

What makes you think that the auction house is not aware? It is possible that they know and condone.

Hopefully not.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-Topps-H...wAAOSwmJdZhMtR

Hopefully they will fix this.

Sadly, no, Brentsy won't do a thing about it.....

[botn]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Good to see that all is normal on a Saturday night and that you're being your usual douchebag self, Greg.

For the record, I have never defended bid retractions.

Is there anyone with thinner skin than you on the board? For once, try not to be so predictable.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by botn

Is there anyone with thinner skin than you on the board? For once, try not to be so predictable.

Not thin skinned, Greg, I just don't like being called out in a thread on which I didn't even post. Do you have some issue with me that you would call me out specifically by name? You obviously have an issue with PWCC and their bid retractions. I don't like bid retractions either because everyone knows that it's just a cover up for shill bidding. But the difference between you and me is that I have every right to voice my opinion while you have absolutely no right...

Originally Posted by botn

Over, at least, the last 4 years I was advised and urged to not make a post like this so this comes as a great relief to me that I can finally write this. There is nothing noble in my decision to do this since my name is out there as a consignor with Mastro and associated with items which were identified as shilled but I feel I owe an explanation to those who were harmed and to those who call me a hobby friend. I made a mess so I have to clean it up.
During roughly 2005 to 2009 we consigned a few hundred thousand dollars worth of material to Mastro. Our consignments generally consisted of our more expensive inventory since that type of material did not seem to do as well on eBay—our only other outlet for retail sales AND auction houses like Mastro seemed to be setting record prices. At some point after less than stellar auction results and being completely incensed and frustrated, we decided to protect items rather than allowing them to sell below what we felt were fair values.

At no point did we ever conspire with anyone at Mastro on those bids. We never knew who was bidding on our items or what their bids were. I have no recollection which of our consignments I was the one to place a bid and which my former business partner bid on but since he is no longer here I have to take responsibility for our actions. Sometimes a top all would be placed and other times we would bid incrementally so as to not open ourselves up to being shill bid, as ironic as that might sound. In each instance our bids were made with the intent to buy back the item and a willingness to pay the buyer’s premium, as we did each time we bought back a lot. It did not feel right doing this but I never thought of it as being illegal.

Not to make excuses but the practice described above, of protecting a lot, was very prevalent at that time even among collectors. I will not call out anyone by name but some are current posters here who would frequently ask me to bid up their auction listings on eBay. I now understand why the government considers this shill bidding however our intent with Mastro was never to defraud anyone but to simply protect what was ours. Obviously we should not have consigned if we were not willing to accept that our items might fall far short of our expectations. I cannot take back what I was a part of but I can be a better person going forward. I am sorry to those I harmed and to those who I have disappointed.

As a side note the list may not be as accurate as the government might think. There are a couple errors that I know of in regards to items identified as my consignments according to my records.

Greg

It's always funny to me how those with shady pasts are the first to point fingers at others. I like the part though when you try to justify it by saying everyone was doing it at the time. Classy.

Now, do you want to STFU like you should have done originally or do you want to keep going?

[botn]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Not thin skinned, Greg, I just don't like being called out in a thread on which I didn't even post. Do you have some issue with me that you would call me out specifically by name? You obviously have an issue with PWCC and their bid retractions. I don't like bid retractions either because everyone knows that it's just a cover up for shill bidding. But the difference between you and me is that I have every right to voice my opinion while you have absolutely no right...

It's always funny to me how those with shady pasts are the first to point fingers at others. I like the part though when you try to justify it by saying everyone was doing it at the time. Classy.

Now, do you want to STFU like you should have done originally or do you want to keep going?

I did not call you out. I made a joke. I did not know you were off limits but given your borderline personality disorder I probably should have let you be.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

To be clear it is NOT illegal for an owner to bid on his own items in most jurisdictions that I am aware of. That being said, we have a rule against it as we feel it is unethical, especially in an absolute auction.

[Brent Huigens]

This user ID has been placed on our block list. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions

[irv]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

This user ID has been placed on our block list. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions

Yet, as of 5:54 am EST, it still shows him as the highest bidder? What am I missing?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by irv

Yet, as of 5:54 am EST, it still shows him as the highest bidder? What am I missing?

Although the bidder has been placed on their "Block"list, that does not "Block" them from the present auction.

But, they can cancel that bidder's bid.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

But, they can cancel that bidder's bid.

That won't happen either, sadly

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

To be clear it is NOT illegal for an owner to bid on his own items in most jurisdictions that I am aware of. That being said, we have a rule against it as we feel it is unethical, especially in an absolute auction.

I actually dont have a problem if someone is going to eat the BP......on a 10,000 card..thats 2,000 for example...they really going to try to shill it again? The problem is that very few actually 'eat' the card.. They probably call the consignor and say if they want to sell their 100,000s of value of cards in the future they will not make them eat the card.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I agree and not sure on the legality of shilling AND retracting. Individually both activities are legal, but combined it heads into an area I don't feel competent to call.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It would have been nice to see the bids cancelled, but what can you do.

[irv]

So Brent, what happens when Randy Retraction retracts another bid and the current underbidder tells you he doesn't want it as he spent his money elsewhere?
Does the card now go to next in line or is the auction for that card cancelled?

Please explain what is going on? You said "This user ID has been placed on our block list". but yet he is still there, and from what I understand, is still bidding?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It would have been nice to see the bids cancelled, but what can you do.

$7,601.00 and won by the guy with the 20 retractions. He will likely be banned now I am guessing?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Perhaps they were not malicious retractions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

I like the guy who put in 28 bids. Quite a deviation from his usual pattern, it appears, but whatever. All is good.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

This user ID has been placed on our block list. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions

And yet the same bidder managed to place a bid the next morning (first one on the list). Odd. (Brent's I mean Betsy's message is time stamped 08-14-2017, 12:28 AM.)

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/401...p2047675.l2565

Bidder on the 63 Topps:
1***3(1023) $7,601.00 12 Aug 2017 at 5:53:45PM PDT

Bidder on the Unitas:
1***3(1023) $5,100.00 14 Aug 2017 at 9:58:46AM PDT

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And yet the same bidder managed to place a bid the next morning (first one on the list). Odd. (Brent's I mean Betsy's message is time stamped 08-14-2017, 12:28 AM.)

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/401...p2047675.l2565

Bidder on the 63 Topps:
1***3(1023) $7,601.00 12 Aug 2017 at 5:53:45PM PDT

Bidder on the Unitas:
1***3(1023) $5,100.00 14 Aug 2017 at 9:58:46AM PDT

Even All-Pro offensive linemen miss some of their "blocks".

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Even All-Pro offensive linemen miss some of their "blocks".

delete. Just not worth it...

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Here is my recommendation. Instead of the useless and worthless rants that have been going on for years, screw with him on listings. If that's how everybody feels, throw it back at him. Ebay doesn't give a shit, period, they never will, so why worry about the recourse??. This conversation has been stale for years, so shake some shit up.....Make something happen...Leon, I'm sorry if this is wrong, but my God, this is ridiculous...This is a conversation that comes up every two weeks or so...

here is a suggestion: when you see the title of the thread, don't open it. my god, problem solved.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

here is a suggestion: when you see the title of the thread, don't open it. my god, problem solved.

Or the poster of the thread lol.

[Jeffrompa]

.. usually makes it go away .

[Peter_Spaeth]

That blocked bidder somehow keeps bidding, I wonder how he manages it.

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/401...p2047675.l2565



1***3(1036) $2,950.00 23 Aug 2017 at 1:48:26PM PDT
1***3(1036) $2,950.00 21 Aug 2017 at 8:06:20AM PDT

And yes, it's our same bidder as in the first post, who Betsy "blocked" on the 13th. He now has additional feedback.

1***3(1036) $7,601.00 12 Aug 2017 at 5:53:45PM PDT
1***3(1036) $7,601.00 8 Aug 2017 at 2:56:34PM PDT

[botn]

Peter are you in the midst of a work interview in order to secure the apparent vacancy that PWCC has for a dedicated "auction monitor"?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by botn

Peter are you in the midst of a work interview in order to secure the apparent vacancy that PWCC has for a dedicated "auction monitor"?

Greg, it took me about 10 minutes to confirm my suspicions here. Ebay isn't as transparent as it used to be, but it provides enough data that it's still possible to fact-check some lies.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Greg, it took me about 10 minutes to confirm my suspicions here. Ebay isn't as transparent as it used to be, but it provides enough data that it's still possible to fact-check some lies.

Wait a moment. Are you suggesting that Brent and Betsy have lied?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am suggesting that in post 15, 10 or so days ago, Betsy assured us the 20 retraction bidder had been blocked, and that according to ebay the same 20 retraction bidder just placed a bid on a card in a PWCC auction (and had placed another bid on the same card 2 days ago, and at least one other on the card and other cards the morning after he was banned). Draw your own conclusions.

[botn]

But remember some rules do not apply:

"He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months, and has every intention to proceed with the purchase should he/she win the card."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by botn

But remember some rules do not apply:

"He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months, and has every intention to proceed with the purchase should he/she win the card."

That's fine, then be up front about it, and don't tell us the bidder is blocked when he isn't. Don't play us for fools.

[botn]

We could be doing this by email but...isn't most or all of what they post just giving lip service so that people just let them be? There have been no consequences for what they have been been caught doing so lip service has served them well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

All one can do is shine a light and hope someone cares.

[rjackson44]

This will never end

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All one can do is shine a light and hope someone cares.

Originally Posted by rjackson44

This will never end

Like Peter just alluded to, it shouldn't end until something is done.

Not a word PWCC speaks can be taken as the truth.

[calvindog]

Are there any class action lawyers on the page?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Are there any class action lawyers on the page?

Kevin Quinn got banned, I think.

[PiratesWS1979]

Originally Posted by irv

Not a word PWCC speaks can be taken as the truth.

...and this is why I'll never consign again and very rarely ever bid!

[irv]

Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979

...and this is why I'll never consign again and very rarely ever bid!

I was a fool, which is who they cater too, as I believed their big letter, talking about the stopping/banning shill and string bidders thinking it was the truth.

I actually believed, between them and E-Bay, that I was actually bidding/purchasing from a caring, open and transparent AH.

What a fool I was!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well, our boy just won a 9K card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Fleer-F...19.m1438.l2649

And a 7k card.

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/401...565&rmvSB=true

And possibly others I don't feel like searching for.

Honestly I doubt I would ban him either especially if I had reassurances he wouldn't keep doing it, but then again I wouldn't say that I had if I hadn't, nor would I make a big deal out of a blocked bidder policy if I didn't really have one.

[nsaddict]

Yup, and the under bidder cost him 4K on the Unitas (if he pays).

[Neal]

And recorded prices just continue to climb .....

[Republicaninmass]

Very odd as someone contacted me about not paying on a pwcc auction, do to questionable results. He said the blocked him immediately!