1952 Bowman Large

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I will state the obvious and say how beautiful this set is! It is probably out of my league in the condition I would want to build it in. Any of you guys have any to show off??

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[jefferyepayne]

Another great topic, Robert! Sure with we could get more collectors to join us in the great conversations we are having. Maybe we should just move them to PM's and be done with it Any other football collectors out there? Or is everyone prepping for their fantasy drafts?

[LuckyLarry]

From card #1 Norm Van Brocklin to the last card in the set #144 Jim Lansford SP RC, there are many challenges to this set. Good Luck!
Larry

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Sweet stuff, Larry!

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[jefferyepayne]

You opened up a huge wound bringing this set up, Robert. 1952 Bowman L was one of the first one I completed when I started my to build pre-70s mainstream sets. Unfortunately my tastes have change in cards over time and now I wish I had been more choosy in the cards I bought. Someday I'll get around to perhaps upgrading some of them.

What a wonderful set to look at, though. I like all of the early Bowman sets but the large format of this set coupled with the dramatic colors just makes these cards POP.

Here are a few of the nicer ones I've got.







The only graded card I have in this set is the LAST card I was able to find. It's one of the short prints and was a bear to track down.



jeff

[revmoran]

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

You opened up a huge wound bringing this set up, Robert. 1952 Bowman L was one of the first one I completed when I started my to build pre-70s mainstream sets. Unfortunately my tastes have change in cards over time and now I wish I had been more choosy in the cards I bought. Someday I'll get around to perhaps upgrading some of them.

What a wonderful set to look at, though. I like all of the early Bowman sets but the large format of this set coupled with the dramatic colors just makes these cards POP.

Here are a few of the nicer ones I've got.







The only graded card I have in this set is the LAST card I was able to find. It's one of the short prints and was a bear to track down.



jeff

Always happy to help, Jeff! Those are some nice looking cards. I am afraid 52 Large might be a little out of my reach in the grade range I would want. I think it is a beautiful set. I am going to keep pricing it just to make sure before I give up on the idea. The 60s stuff is probably more my speed, and I am good with that. Meanwhile, I enjoy living vicariously through you guys.

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[mmier118]

I don't have any pictures handy, but I'm putting this set together and it's really grown on me. I like how the sp's add an extra layer of difficulty in putting the run together. I didn't really have trouble picking up the sp's in psa 4-6 range, I did have to pay up for them though, but overall I didn't think it was too bad. From my short time watching for them I was surprised at how many lansford's showed up, and thought that conerly, stydahar, and Ronzani were more elusive. I guess Lansford could just get listed more often because of its reputation. I like how this set has a great mix of rc's and veterans, I find it amazing that most sports fans know baseballs HOF'ers of the era like Ted Williams, Willie Mays and Mantle, but when I ask my friends if they know who Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh are I just get blank a blank stare. They for sure don't know Hugh Mcelhenny or Steve Van Buren. I guess that's one of the reasons I enjoy this set, 1935 chicle and 1894 Mayo, these are the sets that have helped me learn about the pioneers of the game and I find their history to be amazing.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by mmier118

I did have to pay up for them though, but overall I didn't think it was too bad. From my short time watching for them I was surprised at how many lansford's showed up, and thought that conerly, stydahar, and Ronzani were more elusive. I guess Lansford could just get listed more often because of its reputation.

It is a myth that Lansford is more difficult to find in higher grade than the other SPs in this set. In fact, the entire concept in the hobby that the first and last cards in a set are found in lower quality is a myth perpetuated by the price guides. There is no evidence this is true at all. Stydahar and Ronzani were a BEAR to find and their prices were high.

Originally Posted by mmier118

I like how this set has a great mix of rc's and veterans, I find it amazing that most sports fans know baseballs HOF'ers of the era like Ted Williams, Willie Mays and Mantle, but when I ask my friends if they know who Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh are I just get blank a blank stare. They for sure don't know Hugh Mcelhenny or Steve Van Buren. I guess that's one of the reasons I enjoy this set, 1935 chicle and 1894 Mayo, these are the sets that have helped me learn about the pioneers of the game and I find their history to be amazing.

I love the history of the game too, Mike! It is frustrating how little the NFL seems to care about the history of the game. MLB does a much better job glorifying its past and propping up its stars from previous eras. For the NFL, if it happened before Super Bowl I, it's like it never happened at all.

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

A few more that aren't too bad.









jeff

[clamendo]

It's not a myth. The cards at the end of the sheet are tough because bowman went from a small size card to a large format. I think cards #1, 9, 63, 72 in the low series are tough in nice shape. Also, the corresponding 4 corner cards on sheet #2 (with Ronzani and Lansford in the bottom corners. Being the last card may contribute a little.


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[clamendo]

If everyone posted an image of their Schweder card, I'll bet it's off center


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[mmier118]

Originally Posted by clamendo

If everyone posted an image of their Schweder card, I'll bet it's off center


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Yes my Scweder is off center, but the same could be said for most of my set lol, maybe with time I'll upgrade and maybe not, I'd love to have a centered set but first I just need to finish my set. I may have some time tomorrow and I'll try and scan some cards and figure out how to post them. I used to use photo bucket but I heard that's not an option now so we'll see what I can figure out.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by clamendo

It's not a myth. The cards at the end of the sheet are tough because bowman went from a small size card to a large format. I think cards #1, 9, 63, 72 in the low series are tough in nice shape. Also, the corresponding 4 corner cards on sheet #2 (with Ronzani and Lansford in the bottom corners. Being the last card may contribute a little.
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Every population report analysis I've seen done says that it is a myth that the first and last cards in a set (in general) are found in lower grade. That's what I stated above. Cards on the borders of sheets tend to be found in lower grade with the corners particularly susceptible to damage. As the SPs in the Bowman Large set are all on the borders, this definitely makes them not only more scarce (as SPs) but more likely to be found in lower grade (as border cards).

However, there is no evidence that Lansford is found in lower grade than the rest of the SPs. Here is the current PSA on the Bowman Large SPs. Across the top is Total Population, Population at high grade (PSA 8 and above), and the percentage of high grade cards.



While the percentage of high grade cards for Lansford is on the low side, there are numerous other SPs that have a lower percentage of high grade cards. Why aren't these cards as pricey as the Lansford? The only logical explanation is that the Lansford card is perceived to be more difficult to find in higher grade due to it being the "last card in the set".

It's simply not true.

jeff

[LuckyLarry]

staining? check
creases? check
staple holes? check
oh, and WAY off centered
Larry

[mmier118]

Larry, I love your set, there is nothing like a well loved set that you can handle and enjoy. Your posts about building it helped inspire me to go after the set myself. I trully thank you for that, it was fun to see your journey on building it.

Here is a sample of my 1952 Bowman larges:

[mmier118]

Ok a few more since I love this set so much:

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by mmier118

Ok a few more since I love this set so much:

Holy cow, Mike, please stop!! Just kidding...those are really nice!! Thanks for sharing. Maybe someday I will be able to build a set like that. Is your entire set graded??

I also give Larry BIG kudos. He is an inspiration!

[mmier118]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

Holy cow, Mike, please stop!! Just kidding...those are really nice!! Thanks for sharing. Maybe someday I will be able to build a set like that. Is your entire set graded??

I also give Larry BIG kudos. He is an inspiration!

I didn't originally intend to go for a graded set, but I liked the set so much and I started looking at the populations, and the set registry and decided to go for the whole set in psa. I'm probably about 35 to 40 cards short of a graded set but I have all the stars and almost all the sp's. I was surprised that there are only 10 complete sets on the psa registry. I've never done a registry set and don't know if I'll put this on there when complete but it's something I will consider. If you decide to go for it I would say it's a fun journey and at only 144 cards it's a good size where you feel you are always making progress.

[jefferyepayne]

Awesome cards, Mike! Love that Otto Graham.

jeff

[clamendo]

Forget "8"'s You can see what I mean in Larry's response. Post a scan of your Schweder!


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[clamendo]

I agree the Lansford is a little on the heavy side, but don't forget those corner cards are a bear. Especially the Low Numbers


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Great thread! I just started collecting these and I love 'em. Here's what I've got so far:

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by NewEnglandBaseBallist

Great thread! I just started collecting these and I love 'em. Here's what I've got so far:

Sweet!

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[mmier118]

Those look great, I love how the rams and u of mich. uniforms really pop on this set.

[GoldenAge50s]

Hi Guys---Just saw this thread as I haven't been on the Board much lately, but wanted to contribute.

I have a complete set I bought in packs back when I was 12 yrs old! I don't think I've ever had a single upgrade & decided to have them graded by SGC just as they remained to this day.

Here are a few of some of the key cards:

[jefferyepayne]

Man you took care of your cards, Fred! Impressive that you pulled these out of packs.

jeff

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Those are absolute jaw-droppers!

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[clamendo]

Brian Wentz years ago had a major find of 1952 Bowman football cards. He helped Randy Stuckemeyer build his #1 SGC set. I think he had as many as 15 sets/near sets he built from the find. They were all in SGC holders. He could never find a nice #54 or #144 from what I remembered. It's too bad his set is no longer posted. He eventually found an SGC 92 Lansford. So, based on that find, you would think Randy would have been able to pull better the an SGC 80 Lansford. I think he ended up paying 27k for his SGC 92. Randy was probably the most condition conscious collector I had ever met. He found the SGC 96 Nagurski that was later crossed to the PSA 9.

Paul Kaufman had the #1 1952 Bowman large set on the PSA registry for 15 years. The only cards he couldn't find PSA 8 or better were #1Van Brocklin, #9 Spencer, and #45 Van Buren. There is an excellent article on the psa web site that greg bussineau wrote that shows the sheet positions and describes why the 52 Large SPs and SP+1 are so difficult.

Both are pretty good data points for the rarity of the SPs and the Lansford.


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[clamendo]

Read this

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...e-football-set


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[mmier118]

Fred-

Those look great! I think the best part is that you pulled them yourself. I'm jealous that as a kid you got 1952 bowman large and I got 1989 pro set lol. I guess I did get to open some 1986 fleer basketball, so it wasn't all bad. Anyways thanks for showing those they are pretty amazing.

Mike

[mmier118]

Originally Posted by clamendo

Brian Wentz years ago had a major find of 1952 Bowman football cards. He helped Randy Stuckemeyer build his #1 SGC set. I think he had as many as 15 sets/near sets he built from the find. They were all in SGC holders. He could never find a nice #54 or #144 from what I remembered. It's too bad his set is no longer posted. He eventually found an SGC 92 Lansford. So, based on that find, you would think Randy would have been able to pull better the an SGC 80 Lansford. I think he ended up paying 27k forhis SGC 92. Randy was probably the most condition conscious collector I had ever met. He found the SGC 96 Nagurski that was later crossed to the PSA 9.

Paul Kaufman had the #1 1952 Bowman large set on the PSA registry for 15 years. The only cards he couldn't find PSA 8 or better were #1Van Brocklin, #9 Spencer, and #45 Van Buren. There is an excellent article on the psa web site that greg bussineau wrote that shows the sheet positions and describes why the 52 Large SPs and SP+1 are so difficult.

Both are pretty good data points for the rarity of the SPs and the Lansford.


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Wow, 15 sets, what a find! It's great to hear about the collectors as well as the cards, a PSA 9 nagurski blows my mind as well.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I agree, Carl. That is simply amazing!

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[toppcat]

The Bowman sheets were actually almost the same size as Topps uncut sheets, the 9 x 4's are cut down and are found for a lot of their sports and NS sets. I think they did that to fit their cutting equipment or to simplify whatever way they packaged the cards but I am not positive on the "why", just the "how." Someone (likely Teddy Z.) once posted a pic of a full Bowman Baseball sheet on the board here and it's bigger than 9 x 4. I'm not so sure "re-gearing" the cutting machinery would have been all that hard but it may have had a max size. Bowman's plant looks very small to me when compared to Topps' and smaller equipment may have been the norm there. Anyway, that's my recollection.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Regarding the Lansford, would anyone be willing to share the VCP data on that card?