enough is enough

[packs]

I haven't read a single statement from a protester that mentioned being anti-military. Every statement I've read has been about fighting institutionalized racism. The anthem is seen as being a reflection of American values, but those values aren't always in place in society. Take for example the African American men who served in World War II against fascism and genocide who then came home to segregated bathrooms. That is why they protest during the anthem.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

That is why they protest during the anthem.

No, read my earlier post. They protest against the anthem because the anthem is racist...

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-c...#axzz4u4uQU1Tr

Everything is racist nowadays. Can't have historical plaques, can't have historical statues, can't have a national anthem, can't have anything that represents history because it's all racist.

[packs]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

No, read my earlier post. They protest against the anthem because the anthem is racist...

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-c...#axzz4u4uQU1Tr

Everything is racist nowadays. Can't have historical plaques, can't have historical statues, can't have a national anthem, can't have anything that represents history because it's all racist.

Well, did you read the stanza from the anthem that is no longer recited? It is quite racist. But beyond that I think it's more important to listen to the people who are actually protesting and their self-professed motivations, none of which seem to mention the military at all.

As an aside, I don't think there is anything wrong with revisionist history. We are always changing the way we do things to better reflect the moment in time that we're in. I'll give you another example. Were you aware that prior to World War II Americans saluted the flag by extending the right arm to it? That tradition ended when the Nazi party adopted a similar salute. I don't think we're worse for wear for abandoning it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Well, did you read the stanza from the anthem that is no longer recited? It is quite racist. But beyond that I think it's more important to listen to the people who are actually protesting and their self-professed motivations, none of which seem to mention the military at all.

As an aside, I don't think there is anything wrong with revisionist history. We are always changing the way we do things to better reflect the moment in time that we're in. I'll give you another example. Were you aware that prior to World War II Americans saluted the flag by extending the right arm to it? That tradition ended when the Nazi party adopted a similar salute. I don't think we're worse for wear for abandoning it.

Racist? Not Racist? Whatever!
Military? Non-military? Whatever!

Do you believe that anybody has the right to protest while at work? While on the job? While being paid?

[packs]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Racist? Not Racist? Whatever!
Military? Non-military? Whatever!

Do you believe that anybody has the right to protest while at work? While on the job? While being paid?

If you fire all the players, who is going to play the games? I don't think it's realistic to look at NFL players the same way you would an average employee. For example, is it reasonable for a normal employee to assume that failing a drug test would mean termination? I would say so. But that is not a foregone conclusion in the NFL.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

If you fire all the players, who is going to play the games? I don't think it's realistic to look at NFL players the same way you would an average employee. For example, is it reasonable for a normal employee to assume that failing a drug test would mean termination? I would say so. But that is not a foregone conclusion in the NFL.

Employers have the right to make their own policies. If I failed a drug test at work, yes, I would be fired. Then again, if I beat my wife, it's none of their (my employer's) business where the NFL takes disciplinary action.

But, that didn't answer the question. Do you believe employees have the right to protest while at work on company time?

As far as firing all the players, I didn't say that and I don't want that. I fat deduction to their paycheck by order of a fine would be nice to see though.

[packs]

The second the NFL starts fining players is the same second they all sit out. It would ruin the NFL.

I think employees should enjoy the same rights at work as they do outside of it. I don't feel as though I should have to surrender any freedoms because I need to feed myself. There are always going to be lines you can't cross in a professional setting, but I don't think that line is sitting down.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Racist? Not Racist? Whatever!
Military? Non-military? Whatever!

Do you believe that anybody has the right to protest while at work? While on the job? While being paid?

You are correct, David. If you decide to protest anything at work you can be fired. Your constitutional rights are not protected while at work, therefore the owners should come down on them , but it will never happen for fear they will be called a racist. They are as pathetic as their employees.

[nolemmings]

Your statement is oversimplistic. It is by no means clear that a player could be fired for failing to stand for the anthem. In fact, I would bet he cannot.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcede.../#3333baa12976
Moot point, though--ain't gonna happen.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Your statement is oversimplistic. It is by no means clear that a player could be fired for failing to stand for the anthem. In fact, I would bet he cannot.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcede.../#3333baa12976
Moot point, though--ain't gonna happen.

You can be fired for voting for the wrong candidate. Employers have wide latitude in hiring and firing as long as they don't make it obvious they are discriminating.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Your statement is oversimplistic. It is by no means clear that a player could be fired for failing to stand for the anthem. In fact, I would bet he cannot.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcede.../#3333baa12976
Moot point, though--ain't gonna happen.

You certainly can be fired if you are protesting anything at your work place , on company time , without the owners permission

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

No, read my earlier post. They protest against the anthem because the anthem is racist...

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-c...#axzz4u4uQU1Tr

Everything is racist nowadays. Can't have historical plaques, can't have historical statues, can't have a national anthem, can't have anything that represents history because it's all racist.

Not everything is racist, only the things that are. Racism just happens to be a prevalent and shameful part of American history

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Everything is racist nowadays.

Yes, everything...even Dr. Seuss books.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...as-racist.html

If you don't want to read the article, let me sum it up for you. "Dr. Seuss’s illustrations are steeped in racist propaganda, caricatures, and harmful stereotypes."

Wow! Who knew?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, everything...even Dr. Seuss books.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...as-racist.html

If you don't want to read the article, let me sum it up for you. "Dr. Seuss’s illustrations are steeped in racist propaganda, caricatures, and harmful stereotypes."

Wow! Who knew?

Dunno bout Seuss, but as our sensitivies and sensibilities have evolved, there is certainly a lot in the pop culture of even a few decades ago that through today's eyes seems racist and or sexist.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dunno bout Seuss, but as our sensitivies and sensibilities have evolved, there is certainly a lot in the pop culture of even a few decades ago that through today's eyes seems racist and or sexist.

Yes, Peter, I agree. But do we re-write history, remove plaques, tear down statues, etc? Where do we stop? There are certainly some racists in the HOF too. Do we give them the boot and ignore all their accomplishments? It has to stop somewhere. The political correctness is out of hand.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, Peter, I agree. But do we re-write history, remove plaques, tear down statues, etc? Where do we stop? There are certainly some racists in the HOF too. Do we give them the boot and ignore all their accomplishments? It has to stop somewhere. The political correctness is out of hand.

OK David this has to stop!!! This is your second post in this thread I agree with, what is next, Jake making a post I agree with.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, Peter, I agree. But do we re-write history, remove plaques, tear down statues, etc? Where do we stop? There are certainly some racists in the HOF too. Do we give them the boot and ignore all their accomplishments? It has to stop somewhere. The political correctness is out of hand.

Amen.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, Peter, I agree. But do we re-write history, remove plaques, tear down statues, etc? Where do we stop? There are certainly some racists in the HOF too. Do we give them the boot and ignore all their accomplishments? It has to stop somewhere. The political correctness is out of hand.

It's a good question. I am not sure I have a principled answer but I am OK with taking down the Confederate flag on a state capitol as it's such an overt symbol. Removing monuments and renaming things though strikes me as feel good political correctness that achieves nothing for the most part.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by packs

I haven't read a single statement from a protester that mentioned being anti-military. Every statement I've read has been about fighting institutionalized racism. The anthem is seen as being a reflection of American values, but those values aren't always in place in society. Take for example the African American men who served in World War II against fascism and genocide who then came home to segregated bathrooms. That is why they protest during the anthem.

+1