enough is enough

[Leon]

I don't watch major league sports much anyway but I don't think these guys should be protesting anything, while hard working Americans are paying to see them play football and take their minds off of the things they are protesting, at least for a few hours. Just the wrong venue. If I was a fan I wouldn't be any longer,. Again, just my right as everyone has the right to do what they want to. I do believe the players have every right to protest while in uniform. And I believe each owner has every right to fire them too. It's America. oh, and happy collecting too.

[packs]

You have to admit though if you're there to watch football, the game is still played. The anthem has no bearing on the game.

Before Jackie, players, fans, owners, the media and society in general tried to keep African Americans from playing professional baseball. They succeeded for nearly a century. There is nothing that makes me prouder to be an American than to see those same disenfranchised people now in a position of power within their sports.

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't watch major league sports much anyway but I don't think these guys should be protesting anything, while hard working Americans are paying to see them play football and take their minds off of the things they are protesting, at least for a few hours. Just the wrong venue. If I was a fan I wouldn't be any longer,. Again, just my right as everyone has the right to do what they want to. I do believe the players have every right to protest while in uniform. And I believe each owner has every right to fire them too. It's America. oh, and happy collecting too.

I agree Leon, if you don't like it don't watch. Stand for something (no pun intended)

[KMayUSA6060]

So so SOOOOO many angles to this. Here is my breakdown and viewpoint(s).

1) First and foremost, we need to look at the person who started this movement - Colin Kaepernick. Yes, the racial minority person who has made millions in this country, and was raised by white people, had this to say about why he knelt for the Anthem: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." Again, a black person/person of color, who has made millions in this country and was raised by white people, said that. Additionally, he blatantly stated that he is protesting the flag, which represents this country, the freedoms of this country, and the ultimate sacrifice given to protect those freedoms.

2) Kaepernick's unemployment is due to his play on the field not equaling out the image risk that comes with hiring him. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. He chose to exercise his 1st Amendment rights to free speech and the right to protest at work. There are consequences that come with one's actions, and the consequences thus far have not violated The Constitution.

3) Nothing changed in this country to further any supposed "racial oppression" in the past year, so why are all of these players just NOW protesting the supposed social injustices? Why weren't they with Kaepernick last year?

4) As stated above, Kaepernick was protesting the Flag, and therefore protesting the Anthem & this country as a whole. The players that state they are with Kaepernick, that this has nothing to do with the Flag/the Anthem/the military, they're full of $#%!. That's EXACTLY what this has to do with. If you don't think this country provides each individual with the same freedoms/rights, then yes, you would be protesting the country.

5) I don't care if you want to protest, that's your Constitutional right. Just don't do it at your job that I and many others are paying the salary for. Now, with that being said, I am one that doesn't agree with their agenda/reason for protesting, but that's a topic for a different forum.

6) Taya Kyle (Chris Kyle's - American Sniper - wife) challenged the NFL to affect real change, instead of essentially being a bunch of lazy, cowardly "social justice warriors." Here is here letter to the NFL: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...er-to-nfl.html. She's dead-freaking-on. If you actually think there's social injustice/racial oppression in this country, then do something about it. Don't take a knee like a pansie; get out and put your money where your mouth is. Hold community events, work with the communities, families, and law enforcement to come together and build better relations. Taking a knee does NOTHING but drive a wedge into this country and create a bigger divide.

7) The league-wide protests took place after Trump called them all out. So now are you protesting racial oppression/social injustice, or are you protesting the President? By the way, he wasn't wrong about the product on the field suffering because of the penalties. Football is borderline unwatchable with all of the laundry consistently littering the field.

8) Don't ridicule me for being PO'd about this and making my voice heard. I have the same rights and freedoms as the next person, and it's hypocritical to say otherwise.

9) This "movement" loses even more credibility with me when the players stand for UK's Anthem (where the Slave Trade started) and never mention the Middle East/Asia, where there's the highest percentage of slaves. As well, don't complain about "racism" then hold up your fist to symbolize "black power." That furthers the racial issues in this country, as it symbolizes the empowerment of a skin color. SKIN COLOR DOES. NOT. MATTER.

10) There is some fault on both sides. The PA fire chief that referred the those who are kneeling as the n-word, etc. No place for that.

11) This whole "unity" thing is crap. You're getting hit where it hurts - your wallet - and now you're quickly working on damage control so you can stay rich and employed in this country that supposedly "oppresses" you. Just like the Browns RB Isaiah Crowell quietly giving money to the police union(s) after posting a picture of a police officer being decapitated. It's hollow. Stand with respect for the Anthem, put your tails between your legs, and go out and actually do something about your issues with this country.

12) The NFL and NBA have lost me, and quite possibly forever. Between the kneeling & what I view as a protest against this country, Curry/LeBron attacking Trump and those who voted for him, and Gregg Popovich saying that white people need to be made uncomfortable, I have better ways to allocate my money and time. I called DirecTV and had my FREE year long NFL Sunday Ticket subscription cancelled. I've seen a couple smarta$$ comments telling people who are boycotting the NFL to enjoy the LPGA tour on Sundays. Actually, I will enjoy watching baseball, golf, tennis, and NASCAR more, so thank you.

I love this country and everything it stands (oh there's that word again - stand) for. Is it perfect? Hell no, but it's the greatest damn country in this world and I take exception to anyone that wants to attack it in any way, shape, or form. Recognize the freedoms and opportunities that our Founding Fathers and those who gave the ultimate sacrifice have afforded us. Use those to constructively build a better society without destroying the framework. We have gotten so far away from being decent human beings and loving thy neighbor. God Bless you, yours, and America.

That's the best I have without being TOO political. Sorry Leon if this post breaks any rules.

[packs]

Can you point to one statement on the protest that has anything to do with protesting the flag or the military? I have not read a single statement that even touches on those topics except to expressly state those topics are not related to the protest.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

Can you point to one statement on the protest that has anything to do with protesting the flag or the military? I have not read a single statement that even touches on those topics except to expressly state those topics are not related to the protest.

I'm sorry, let me bold and italicize this for you so it's easier to see.

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." - Colin Kaepernick on why he knelt for the Anthem.

The military aspect is an understood connection. The Flag moves with the last breath of each individual who died protecting it. The Flag represents the freedoms many gave the ultimate sacrifice to protect. Not sure what else the Flag could mean to you.

Numerous players have said they are with Kaepernick, and support his "goal". If this had nothing to do with the Flag, why would they kneel for the Star Spangled Banner, yet stand for God Save the Queen?

Again, I can't be political on here, but many of us feel this is more of an attack on our country than it is an attempt to better our already great society. Otherwise, you would probably see these players working in places like the south side of Chicago to help better those communities and relations.

[packs]

Well you are right that he said that but my interpretation of that statement is a social one, not that he's against America or the flag, since it implies he would stand for both if not for the injustices he sees in our society.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Well you are right that he said that but my interpretation of that statement is a social one, not that he's against America or the flag, since it implies he would stand for both if not for the injustices he sees in our society.

You just got b!tched slapped with some harsh truth and you're still posting? You're a fool.

[packs]

I don't feel like one. I feel like the opposite of one. I feel on the right side of history. I look forward to living in a world where people care more about human beings than who stands up when.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

you just got b!tched slapped with some harsh truth and you're still posting? You're a fool.

lolololol

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You just got b!tched slapped with some harsh truth and you're still posting? You're a fool.

And you're an ignorant asshole. The flag is a symbol, the constitution is what this is all about and the actual execution of it's intent and purpose. You can bastardized the point all you want but that is what this symbolic gesture is all about and for the record you don't have to be black to support it, you just need to see things from a perspective that is inherently foreign to you

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by packs

Well you are right that he said that but my interpretation of that statement is a social one, not that he's against America or the flag, since it implies he would stand for both if not for the injustices he sees in our society.

You must have WAY WAY WAY better eye sight than me. I looked VERY hard at the word "Flag" and didn't see anything written between the lines. Amazing.

[packs]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You must have WAY WAY WAY better eye sight than me. I looked VERY hard at the word "Flag" and didn't see anything written between the lines. Amazing.

You should read the rest of the quote. That is where the social aspect comes in:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

At the time he made this quote Alton Sterling and Philando Castille has just been killed.

Eric Reid joined him 4 days later in his protest. Here is what Eric Reid said:

"We chose to kneel because it's a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy."

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

So so SOOOOO many angles to this. Here is my breakdown and viewpoint(s).

1) First and foremost, we need to look at the person who started this movement - Colin Kaepernick. Yes, the racial minority person who has made millions in this country, and was raised by white people, had this to say about why he knelt for the Anthem: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." Again, a black person/person of color, who has made millions in this country and was raised by white people, said that. Additionally, he blatantly stated that he is protesting the flag, which represents this country, the freedoms of this country, and the ultimate sacrifice given to protect those freedoms.

2) Kaepernick's unemployment is due to his play on the field not equaling out the image risk that comes with hiring him. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. He chose to exercise his 1st Amendment rights to free speech and the right to protest at work. There are consequences that come with one's actions, and the consequences thus far have not violated The Constitution.

3) Nothing changed in this country to further any supposed "racial oppression" in the past year, so why are all of these players just NOW protesting the supposed social injustices? Why weren't they with Kaepernick last year?

4) As stated above, Kaepernick was protesting the Flag, and therefore protesting the Anthem & this country as a whole. The players that state they are with Kaepernick, that this has nothing to do with the Flag/the Anthem/the military, they're full of $#%!. That's EXACTLY what this has to do with. If you don't think this country provides each individual with the same freedoms/rights, then yes, you would be protesting the country.

5) I don't care if you want to protest, that's your Constitutional right. Just don't do it at your job that I and many others are paying the salary for. Now, with that being said, I am one that doesn't agree with their agenda/reason for protesting, but that's a topic for a different forum.

6) Taya Kyle (Chris Kyle's - American Sniper - wife) challenged the NFL to affect real change, instead of essentially being a bunch of lazy, cowardly "social justice warriors." Here is here letter to the NFL: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...er-to-nfl.html. She's dead-freaking-on. If you actually think there's social injustice/racial oppression in this country, then do something about it. Don't take a knee like a pansie; get out and put your money where your mouth is. Hold community events, work with the communities, families, and law enforcement to come together and build better relations. Taking a knee does NOTHING but drive a wedge into this country and create a bigger divide.

7) The league-wide protests took place after Trump called them all out. So now are you protesting racial oppression/social injustice, or are you protesting the President? By the way, he wasn't wrong about the product on the field suffering because of the penalties. Football is borderline unwatchable with all of the laundry consistently littering the field.

8) Don't ridicule me for being PO'd about this and making my voice heard. I have the same rights and freedoms as the next person, and it's hypocritical to say otherwise.

9) This "movement" loses even more credibility with me when the players stand for UK's Anthem (where the Slave Trade started) and never mention the Middle East/Asia, where there's the highest percentage of slaves. As well, don't complain about "racism" then hold up your fist to symbolize "black power." That furthers the racial issues in this country, as it symbolizes the empowerment of a skin color. SKIN COLOR DOES. NOT. MATTER.

10) There is some fault on both sides. The PA fire chief that referred the those who are kneeling as the n-word, etc. No place for that.

11) This whole "unity" thing is crap. You're getting hit where it hurts - your wallet - and now you're quickly working on damage control so you can stay rich and employed in this country that supposedly "oppresses" you. Just like the Browns RB Isaiah Crowell quietly giving money to the police union(s) after posting a picture of a police officer being decapitated. It's hollow. Stand with respect for the Anthem, put your tails between your legs, and go out and actually do something about your issues with this country.

12) The NFL and NBA have lost me, and quite possibly forever. Between the kneeling & what I view as a protest against this country, Curry/LeBron attacking Trump and those who voted for him, and Gregg Popovich saying that white people need to be made uncomfortable, I have better ways to allocate my money and time. I called DirecTV and had my FREE year long NFL Sunday Ticket subscription cancelled. I've seen a couple smarta$$ comments telling people who are boycotting the NFL to enjoy the LPGA tour on Sundays. Actually, I will enjoy watching baseball, golf, tennis, and NASCAR more, so thank you.

I love this country and everything it stands (oh there's that word again - stand) for. Is it perfect? Hell no, but it's the greatest damn country in this world and I take exception to anyone that wants to attack it in any way, shape, or form. Recognize the freedoms and opportunities that our Founding Fathers and those who gave the ultimate sacrifice have afforded us. Use those to constructively build a better society without destroying the framework. We have gotten so far away from being decent human beings and loving thy neighbor. God Bless you, yours, and America.

That's the best I have without being TOO political. Sorry Leon if this post breaks any rules.

Amazing to me that in all the "angles" you numerically lay out there's not a single one (aside from #10) that includes the angle of the African American. Actually it's not amazing at all, it's typical and why this country is a mess. Your points are all limited to your singular perspective on the issue and include no consideration for anyone other than yourself and the perspective of white America. Basically you don't condone the "N" word, what a guy. Congrats and thanks for waisting my time.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Amazing to me that in all the "angles" you numerically lay out there's not a single one (aside from #10) that includes the angle of the African American. Actually it's not amazing at all, it's typical and why this country is a mess. Your points are all limited to your singular perspective on the issue and include no consideration for anyone other than yourself and the perspective of white America. Basically you don't condone the "N" word, what a guy. Congrats and thanks for waisting my time.

You're right, I'm not going to speak for a black person. Why? I'm white. It's not my place to speak for them (unlike those who speak for Native Americans when it comes to Chief Wahoo). I am, however, an American, which affords me the right to voice my opinion.

Thank you for feeling my post wasted your time essentially because I am white, and because I am white my opinion apparently shouldn't matter on this subject.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You're right, I'm not going to speak for a black person. Why? I'm white. It's not my place to speak for them (unlike those who speak for Native Americans when it comes to Chief Wahoo). I am, however, an American, which affords me the right to voice my opinion.

Thank you for feeling my post wasted your time essentially because I am white, and because I am white my opinion apparently shouldn't matter on this subject.

It's about perspective taking you tool. I'm white too but I can still take the perspective of others and understand where they're coming from

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You're right, I'm not going to speak for a black person. Why? I'm white. It's not my place to speak for them (unlike those who speak for Native Americans when it comes to Chief Wahoo). I am, however, an American, which affords me the right to voice my opinion.

Thank you for feeling my post wasted your time essentially because I am white, and because I am white my opinion apparently shouldn't matter on this subject.

Unless you are a middle class suburban white liberal, then you and only you understand the plight of poor people and how they should let you speak for them as you know that they aren't capable of speaking for themselves! In fact, it would be better if the government took care of them!

I find it so funny how the modern left is so suffering from cognitive dissonance that they can't see how racist, elitist and demeaning they sound.

[bnorth]

Wow some interesting stuff in this thread. I will only comment on protesting, I believe we all have the right to do it just not at work.

[bbcardzman]

This is not a protest, it is just a new way for idiots to show their stupidity.
Just like the morons who burned the Lincoln bust to protest slavery.
You can't fix stupid.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Congrats and thanks for waisting my time.

No D!ckhead Dan (I bet you get called that a lot) your ignorant posts are "waisting" your time.

It's "wasting" you stupid moron.