enough is enough

KMayUSA6060 · #1 10-01-2017, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

BTW, it should be remembered that the great Jackie Robinson, who served in the military during a time of World War, also protested the flag:

In his 1972 autobiography, I Never Had It Made, Jackie Robinson -- who broke baseball’s color line in 1947 -- wrote, "As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world."

It should also be remembered the actual oppression he suffered through, and that he served in a time where the draft was still active.

nolemmings · #2 10-01-2017, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

It should also be remembered the actual oppression he suffered through, and that he served in a time where the draft was still active.

So his military service should be discounted because he was drafted instead of enlisted, and he had a right to protest because he could prove, in a manner satisfactory to you and/or others, that he was an actual victim of oppression.
Got it.

cammb · #3 10-01-2017, 11:54 AM

[QUOTE=nolemmings;1706298]So his military service should be discounted because he was drafted instead of enlisted, and he had a right to protest because he could prove, in a manner satisfactory to you and/or others, that he was an actual victim of oppression.

I really feel sorry for these poor oppressed football players. Maybe we should set a fund to help them through their oppression

Peter_Spaeth · #4 10-01-2017, 01:11 PM

[QUOTE=cammb;1706309]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

So his military service should be discounted because he was drafted instead of enlisted, and he had a right to protest because he could prove, in a manner satisfactory to you and/or others, that he was an actual victim of oppression.

I really feel sorry for these poor oppressed football players. Maybe we should set a fund to help them through their oppression

You are missing the point entirely.

vintagetoppsguy · #5 10-01-2017, 01:16 PM

Did Jackie ever get down on all fours and raise his leg pretending to piss like a dog in celebration?

samosa4u · #6 10-01-2017, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Did Jackie ever get down on all fours and raise his leg pretending to piss like a dog in celebration?

Wtf??? lol

Dude, what are you on?

vintagetoppsguy · #7 10-01-2017, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Wtf??? lol

Dude, what are you on?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.3518225

vintagetoppsguy · #8 10-01-2017, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Wtf???

Wtf??? is right. We have black athletes wanting to kneel for the National Anthem to bring awareness to their perceived racial injustice and be taken seriously, but then later get down on all fours and raise their leg pretending to piss like a dog. The NFL has become a joke. Agree or not, you can't dispute the fact their ratings are down. I can honestly say that I didn't watch a single game today, not even any highlights.

frankbmd · #9 10-01-2017, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Wtf??? lol

Dude, what are you on?

No tell Odell

nolemmings · #10 10-01-2017, 04:04 PM

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1706326]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cammb

You are missing the point entirely.

He's not alone. The ignorance in this thread is breathtaking, although I suspect some of it isn't just ignorance.

cammb · #11 10-01-2017, 05:36 PM

[QUOTE=nolemmings;1706371]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He's not alone. The ignorance in this thread is breathtaking, although I suspect some of it isn't just ignorance.

The ignorance is on your part. And your suspicions are that I am a racist? People like you like to throw that word around when you have no answers.

Cliff Bowman · #12 10-01-2017, 05:57 PM

The ignorance is on your part. And your suspicions are that I am a racist? People like you like to throw that word around when you have no answers.[/QUOTE]

Can you edit the quote? It makes it appear that Peter Spaeth said it when it was actually nolemmings. ETA, now it's doing it to me unless it's just my computer.

nolemmings · #13 10-01-2017, 06:11 PM

[QUOTE=cammb;1706404]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

The ignorance is on your part. And your suspicions are that I am a racist? People like you like to throw that word around when you have no answers.

There is no ignorance on my part, of that I am certain. Answers? You can't handle answers--they escape you, you deflect them, or they are simply beyond your comprehension. So let me see if I can make this more clear.

There will be no firings for kneeling at the National Anthem.
There could be no firings absent formal action taken through the CBA, which the owners would lose. Following along so far?
Whether the players are themselves oppressed is irrelevant. I'm a 58 year-old white guy who never served in the military. Do I have no right to join those who have been oppressed and protest with them at what I believe to be injustice? Or do I have to pass some exam satisfactory to you that I have such a right? Who are you to tell me what causes I may protest and those I cannot? And if I'm allowed to join a protest, where do you draw the line at who else can and cannot? There are white players kneeling in these protests. Do they need to prove to you that and how they've been mistreated? Is there a Jackie Robinson test? (Apparently he earned the right to not salute the flag or stand for the anthem.) Don't worry, it was a rhetorical question--the Answer is no.

chaddurbin · #14 10-01-2017, 07:57 PM

[QUOTE=nolemmings;1706371]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He's not alone. The ignorance in this thread is breathtaking, although I suspect some of it isn't just ignorance.

scary huh? why are you and peter still in this thread? are you honestly trying to change their minds?

KMayUSA6060 · #15 10-01-2017, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

So his military service should be discounted because he was drafted instead of enlisted, and he had a right to protest because he could prove, in a manner satisfactory to you and/or others, that he was an actual victim of oppression.
Got it.

Never said his military service should be discounted.

People didn't really have the choice to serve or not to serve back then. When called upon, you served. Additionally, because he was a person of color, he probably served in a lesser position. Do you really think he wanted to serve a country that truly oppressed him? No. But he did, and for that, I thank him dearly.

The second part of your comment was along the lines of what I am saying, which is he did have good reason to protest the country. He had to use different bathrooms, different drinking fountains, stay in different hotels or crappier hotel rooms. He was heckled by all sorts of fans, going through emotional Hell day in and day out. If he was assaulted, he couldn't fight back, because the story would become that he attacked someone else and the white person was in self-defense mode. Compare that to today, when you have these athletes (many of them black) assaulting others and either having the charges dropped, or getting off with a slap on the wrist.

steve B · #16 10-02-2017, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

People didn't really have the choice to serve or not to serve back then. When called upon, you served. Additionally, because he was a person of color, he probably served in a lesser position. Do you really think he wanted to serve a country that truly oppressed him? No. But he did, and for that, I thank him dearly.

While his getting in to OCS wasn't easy, and wasn't for several others at the same time, he was eventually commissioned, and was assigned to the 761st tank battalion.

So not a lesser position, despite the entire military being segregated at the time.

The rest of his military career was a complete mess because of racism though.

Steve B

Leon · #17 10-02-2017, 10:43 AM

I don't really have a problem with "a" thread about this stuff in the water cooler section. It is sports related. And yeah, this is the reason we don't generally allow politics etc..... though I am not sure this is politics? I will reiterate my own position. Every player has a right to protest.
And for me, every team owner can deal with it the way they see fit. From what it looks like to me most of them are just going with the flow (of money coming in, so as not to disrupt their coffers).
IF it were my team they wouldn't be disrespecting the National Anthem by kneeling or putting some crazy arm sign in the air towards the Flag. As mentioned, there is a chance they can't be fired but they can certainly be benched, if not fired. I especifically liked the interview I saw with the Crosby TX football coach at the private school and the actions he took. To each their own, I am not a Football fan, haven't been one and this makes me not even want to watch highlights

. Screw the NFL....

.

KMayUSA6060 · #18 10-02-2017, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

That's not correct. The Supreme Court ruling applies to public schools and public school programs. The Christian academy is exempt because it is not a public school and does not receive public school funds. A Christian Academy would, for example, not need to comply with Title IX, a public school does.

While the ruling may or may not extend to school programs (nothing I've read specifically mentions sports or other extracurricular activities), I personally don't think it should extend to school programs. Those are privileges, not so much a right. That's what changed for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

While his getting in to OCS wasn't easy, and wasn't for several others at the same time, he was eventually commissioned, and was assigned to the 761st tank battalion.

So not a lesser position, despite the entire military being segregated at the time.

The rest of his military career was a complete mess because of racism though.

Steve B

Interesting. Thank you very much for sharing that.

packs · #19 10-02-2017, 11:30 AM

Sports programs are publicly funded they are not afforded anymore rights than any other public school program in school or after school. The law is clear. You cannot punish or otherwise dissuade a student in a public school from participating in any form of non-violent or silent protest on school grounds.

packs · #20 10-02-2017, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

While the ruling may or may not extend to school programs (nothing I've read specifically mentions sports or other extracurricular activities), I personally don't think it should extend to school programs. Those are privileges, not so much a right. That's what changed for me.

I don't really know what else to say other than a Supreme Court ruling is a Supreme Court ruling. Title IX is a Supreme Court ruling as well. It unequivocally applies to sports. How do I know? Because it is the law that says you must provide for both sexes, even in terms of sports teams. Now, you said that a sports program was "extracurricular" and not under the ruling. But if that is true, how do you explain Title IX and the law that says a public school must comply?