baseball playoffs

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rats60

Shelled in the 7th inning again. At least he is being consistent. 95 innings isn't a small sample size, it is half a season for him.

Giving up 4 runs (2 of which when your team is up 7-2 in the sixth inning) is far from being shelled.... he doesnt pitch the same if up 2-0 obviously... hes a team guy

If you want to see shelled...look at Grey, Greinke , T. Walker and a litany of guys this year in the playoffs..

hes still top 3 in the mvp of the series thus far in the dodgers/ariz series......if you are top 3 thats not shelled....by end of series he will be top 1-3...

Dodgers still on march to win it all.....feel free to criticize if dodgers are no longer playing this year..pointless to talk now...especially when kershaw keeps pitching in games his team wins.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That is perhaps the most ridiculous spin I have ever seen put on something. LOL. Stats don't matter when you have a lead. LOL. Yes they do because teams come back. He had yet another mediocre outing. I am sure he would tell you so himself. Period paragraph.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That is perhaps the most ridiculous spin I have ever seen put on something. LOL. Stats don't matter when you have a lead. LOL. Yes they do because teams come back. He had yet another mediocre outing. Period paragraph.

They dont matter. Dodgers won period..and game was never close. You are biased. Especially when you look at this years playoffs he had one of the top 3 starts this year thus far. Times have changed. Pitching in the playoffs is a whole different animal now then even 10 years ago. Wait till series is over..but silly to comment when Dodgers are winning his starts, at least wait till comment if his team is losing. The dodgers care about wins not era. To say you dont pitch differently when your team is up 7 versus 0 is silly as well.

You can win world series MVP if you go 6.1 innings with 4 runs earned and win 3 starts. Heck Livan Hernandez won World Series MVP with a 5.27 era and a 1.829 whip with just 2 W's. Team wins matter obviously..and Kershaw's team won. Plus its not like he gave up 7 runs etc...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

They dont matter. Dodgers won period..and game was never close. You are biased. Especially when you look at this years playoffs he had one of the top 3 starts this year thus far. Times have changed. Pitching in the playoffs is a whole different animal now then even 10 years ago. Wait till series is over..but silly to comment when Dodgers are winning his starts, at least wait till comment if his team is losing. The dodgers care about wins not era. To say you dont pitch differently when your team is up 7 versus 0 is silly as well.

You can win world series MVP if you go 6.1 innings with 4 runs earned and win 3 starts. Heck Livan Hernandez won World Series MVP with a 5.27 era and a 1.829 whip with just 2 W's. Team wins matter obviously..and Kershaw's team won. Plus its not like he gave up 7 runs etc...

Ex post reasoning. And wrong on so many levels.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ex post reasoning. And wrong on so many levels.

Agree to disagree..anyway, many games to go...he still has at least one more start coming in the playoffs..

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Last I checked Edwin wasn't toeing the pitching rubber. They'll be fine without him IMO.

I hope but when a team loses their top run producer, it isn't good news by any stretch.

I honestly don't think he'll be back. Although nothing concrete has come out yet as far as his status goes, I think it is going to be a little more than day to day.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

They dont matter. Dodgers won period..and game was never close. You are biased. Especially when you look at this years playoffs he had one of the top 3 starts this year thus far. Times have changed. Pitching in the playoffs is a whole different animal now then even 10 years ago. Wait till series is over..but silly to comment when Dodgers are winning his starts, at least wait till comment if his team is losing. The dodgers care about wins not era. To say you dont pitch differently when your team is up 7 versus 0 is silly as well.

You can win world series MVP if you go 6.1 innings with 4 runs earned and win 3 starts. Heck Livan Hernandez won World Series MVP with a 5.27 era and a 1.829 whip with just 2 W's. Team wins matter obviously..and Kershaw's team won. Plus its not like he gave up 7 runs etc...

A- they won because of their offense (and Justin Turner is obviously their MVP so far after one game)

B- Home runs are bad, the three things a pitcher can directly control are K's, BB's and home runs (which is why FIP is more predictive of future success than ERA) so, maybe you could make the argument that Roberts should not have brought him out for the 7th, but to try and say he pitched well is a false narrative

C- people are smarter about what matters in baseball now,stuff like pitcher wins aren't considered important any more so Livan wouldn't win MVP in 2017

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

A- they won because of their offense (and Justin Turner is obviously their MVP so far after one game)

B- Home runs are bad, the three things a pitcher can directly control are K's, BB's and home runs (which is why FIP is more predictive of future success than ERA) so, maybe you could make the argument that Roberts should not have brought him out for the 7th, but to try and say he pitched well is a false narrative

C- people are smarter about what matters in baseball now,stuff like pitcher wins aren't considered important any more so Livan wouldn't win MVP in 2017

Right,,he could of been tired gong into the 7th...if he just goes 6 innings and score was 6-4 maybe he doesnt even come out for the 7th.....its not the same thing to give up 2 runs when up 5 versus only up 2 on the late innings.

Justin turner is mvp right now but series is not over...game 2 wasnt great for turner...so again like i said kershaw is top 3 still mvp wise. YOu can also say the Dodgers are winning because the other teams staters are still pitching worse than kershaw...arizona has a more potent offense as well

and for C- you say people are smarter about what matters in baseball now, well holding a lead is more important than era. We can all argue about 'what matters' but there isnt a clear line. Livan still wins MVP as well. Plus season isnt over for Kershaw yet....need to wait for year to end to judge...but if he wins every start...i not sure how that hurts his legacy even if era is 5 if hes a top starting pitcher in all of the playoffs...again people are smarter about what matters in baseball now. starting pitching in the playoffs is a different standard than regular season....if you disagree than its not so easy to say 'people are smarter about what matters in baseball now" I value helping your team win.. There are about 90 % of the starters in this years playoffs that could of lost the game that kershaw won....goin g6 innings and getting a large lead is worth a lot.....again its only 1 game....still more time to decide.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

There are about 90 % of the starters in this years playoffs that could of lost the game that kershaw won....goin g6 innings and getting a large lead is worth a lot.....again its only 1 game....still more time to decide.

This is nonsensical rationalization.


Giving pitchers credit because they only gave up *insert more than 4 runs here* and won a game based on "preserving the lead" is silly, it's folly. Good pitching is good pitching. If a pitcher goes 6 and gives up 8 REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME, that was a bad start. No pitcher with multiple games that bad should win any individual awards for the postseason. Bad starts are bad starts, trying to make excuses for them based on the score doesn't work as an argument.



and the idea that Livan Hernandez won a world series MVP with this stat line:

13.2 inn pitched, 5.27 ERA, 7 K's, 10 BB's, 15 hits and 3 HR's allowed in 2 starts (where his teams won 7-4 and 8-7) is hilariously awful.Like, whoever voted for him was bad and they should feel bad.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How well his own team hit has nothing at all to do with how well a pitcher pitched. This is entirely obvious.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Right,,he could of been tired gong into the 7th...if he just goes 6 innings and score was 6-4 maybe he doesnt even come out for the 7th.....its not the same thing to give up 2 runs when up 5 versus only up 2 on the late innings.

Justin turner is mvp right now but series is not over...game 2 wasnt great for turner...so again like i said kershaw is top 3 still mvp wise. YOu can also say the Dodgers are winning because the other teams staters are still pitching worse than kershaw...arizona has a more potent offense as well

and for C- you say people are smarter about what matters in baseball now, well holding a lead is more important than era. We can all argue about 'what matters' but there isnt a clear line. Livan still wins MVP as well. Plus season isnt over for Kershaw yet....need to wait for year to end to judge...but if he wins every start...i not sure how that hurts his legacy even if era is 5 if hes a top starting pitcher in all of the playoffs...again people are smarter about what matters in baseball now. starting pitching in the playoffs is a different standard than regular season....if you disagree than its not so easy to say 'people are smarter about what matters in baseball now" I value helping your team win.. There are about 90 % of the starters in this years playoffs that could of lost the game that kershaw won....goin g6 innings and getting a large lead is worth a lot.....again its only 1 game....still more time to decide.

If he wins every game and has an ERA over 5, he will still have the worst ERA for any pitcher in history with that many innings pitched. He will still be one of the worst postseason pitchers ever. He will still be a choker. Will it keep him put of the HOF? No. Will he ever be in the discussion of best pitchers of all time? Absolutely not, no matter how good his regular season stats are.

[packs]

I don't think anyone needs more time to decide if Kershaw is a good postseason pitcher. He has proven himself not to be. He's even worse in the NLCS than he is in the NLDS. I can't imagine he'd be better in the Series. When you could theoretically have Kershaw throw 3 games in a 7 game series and you've still never managed to win one, that tells you all you need to know.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Giving up 4 runs (2 of which when your team is up 7-2 in the sixth inning) is far from being shelled.... he doesnt pitch the same if up 2-0 obviously... hes a team guy

If you want to see shelled...look at Grey, Greinke , T. Walker and a litany of guys this year in the playoffs..

hes still top 3 in the mvp of the series thus far in the dodgers/ariz series......if you are top 3 thats not shelled....by end of series he will be top 1-3...

Dodgers still on march to win it all.....feel free to criticize if dodgers are no longer playing this year..pointless to talk now...especially when kershaw keeps pitching in games his team wins.

He was shelled. Dave Roberts was just smarter than Don Mattingly and got him out of the game before he gave up 8. Kershaw is just too weak to finish what he started.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rats60

He was shelled. Dave Roberts was just smarter than Don Mattingly and got him out of the game before he gave up 8. Kershaw is just too weak to finish what he started.

eh..he coudl of pitched 6 innings and everyone would of thought it was a terriifc game and be taken out as well. How many starting pitchers in the playoffs this year have gone more than 6 months...everything is relative...if he was shelled than 90% of the rest of the aces were blaaaasted..