John Buccigross texts -

[1952boyntoncollector]

I dont know if i am out of the circle on this but it appears putting Buccigross in the same context as Weinstein and the group of others?

Calling someone doll face in a text and that person continues to want to meet you for dinner etc?

[clydepepper]

Thank goodness for Sadie Hawkins or nobody would get anywhere.


Someone would have to be named Ichiro just to get to first base.




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[packs]

He also sent pictures of himself without his shirt on to a colleague. Don't know where you guys work but that seems way out of line to me. People come to work to earn a living.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

He also sent pictures of himself without his shirt on to a colleague. Don't know where you guys work but that seems way out of line to me. People come to work to earn a living.

Yes and what was the reaction to the text. People do come to work to earn a living but people at work to sometimes meet their future husband/wife at the workplace do they not?


Meeting for lunch is a lot different than meeting for dinner to a lot of people, not everyone but a lot of people. To avoid any inferences, meeting for lunch is a lot different. I know even man to man i wouldnt ask a colleague who i do not know well to meet me for dinner. I would do a lunch first for example.

Men do not wear shirts at the beach, its not like he was not wearing pants. There may be fake excuses by the accuser of the non-contact but it did appear that she was still open to meet him for dinner.

[packs]

Most companies have internal rules against senior employees engaging in personal relationships with colleagues. Or if a senior employee is in a relationship with a colleague, it would need to be reported. These rules are in place because people in less senior positions could be left to feel like if they don't play along, there will be consequences.

Not to mention Buccigross is married.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

Most companies have internal rules against senior employees engaging in personal relationships with colleagues. Or if a senior employee is in a relationship with a colleague, it would need to be reported. These rules are in place because people in less senior positions could be left to feel like if they don't play along, there will be consequences.

Not to mention Buccigross is married.

Being married/bad marriage/Separated etc doesnt matter. As chris rock said, you are as faithful as your opportunities. There are many solid relationships that dont end in marriage as well. It shouldnt be either you get married or its harrassment.

Well, i dont know if you need to report about having one dinner with someone that never occurred. (as far as we know) How do you define relationship. Plus dont even know if he had to report anything. As you know many doctors have married nurses, many professors have married students, many senior employees have married junior employees etc.. He appeared not to be close as being a direct supervisor, he didnt know her work schedule etc.

I am just going by what the texts that i read.

Most companies do allow for employees do date each other.


I dont see her telling him she has a boyfriend....heck in college i used to ask a girl where the bathroom is at a party and her response was 'i have a boyfriend'

[packs]

Allow yes, but if you're someone's supervisor or in a senior position over someone else, most companies require that relationship be reported. The reason is that an underling may not feel like there's a choice.

ESPN released the text messages it wanted people to read and withheld texts they didn't want people to read. The point is that this guy is one of the senior most employees at ESPN and he's texting a woman building her career who may not feel like she has a choice but to entertain his texts or else lose her budding career. That's why his texts are problematic. You also can't walk around calling a woman at work doll face or long legs, whether you think she wants that kind of attention or not it's unprofessional.

[KMayUSA6060]

This sexual harassment and #MeToo crap is dangerous and has gotten way out of hand.

For the record, my fiancee and I met when she was my boss. As long as it's kept professional at work, they didn't care.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

This sexual harassment and #MeToo crap is dangerous and has gotten way out of hand.

For the record, my fiancee and I met when she was my boss. As long as it's kept professional at work, they didn't care.

Nevermind.............

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

Allow yes, but if you're someone's supervisor or in a senior position over someone else, most companies require that relationship be reported. The reason is that an underling may not feel like there's a choice.

ESPN released the text messages it wanted people to read and withheld texts they didn't want people to read. The point is that this guy is one of the senior most employees at ESPN and he's texting a woman building her career who may not feel like she has a choice but to entertain his texts or else lose her budding career. That's why his texts are problematic. You also can't walk around calling a woman at work doll face or long legs, whether you think she wants that kind of attention or not it's unprofessional.

Well this is a woman trying to make dinner plans...i dont see many guys trying to make dinner plans with guys in senior positions from the get go. Usually theres a lot of time involved to get to that level of friends. It would seem she is doing a short cut to get to the dinner plan parts. Before you consider asking someone for coffee on a first date you need to report to HR? Many junior position people marry senior position people or have a good mutual consensual time together. I would think if you are not kissing, what is there to report to HR..

if she was trying to meet him a midnight in his hotel room to discuss her career? What is the line...making 8 pm dinner plans with someone you do not know that well seems beyond the line..

I can only go by the the texts i have seen. I hope you are not going by texts you have not seen. Going by the texts is all i am saying is what i am commenting on

[packs]

I don't know what texts you're referring to. The ones I read were a married guy trying to convince her to go on a road trip with him, full of unsolicited or requited pet names, and sexual innuendo (stamina! see another blue eyed hunk? beauty, doll face, #dreamgirl, doll, heart eyes emoji's after photos of her, a number of photos with his shirt off, etc.). None of that is appropriate if you ask me. He was her superior at work.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know what texts you're referring to. The ones I read were a married guy trying to convince her to go on a road trip with him, full of unsolicited or requited pet names, and sexual innuendo (stamina! see another blue eyed hunk? beauty, doll face, #dreamgirl, doll, heart eyes emoji's after photos of her, a number of photos with his shirt off, etc.). None of that is appropriate if you ask me. He was her superior at work.

It appears you are picking and choosing texts which you accuse ESPN doing....her texts back do not hint about her having a boyfriend..pointing out that he has a wife. She is scheduling dinner with him. It is a least possible she may of been interested in him. People do get divorced and get a new spouse from someone they met at work. Meeting someone for dinner who you barely know seems odd unless there was a mutual interest. People can always meet for work but know it the back of their minds theres a chance for something else. Much less the case if meeting for lunch where after lunch you go back to work. After dinner thats not the case relatively speaking.

Plus he mentioned long leggs when she said she would have to re-adjust his seat if she sat in it.

When you are high enough, its not like there are many people to choose from to date at your level and higher (at the job) versus people below you (and also much likely younger and single)

here is a bunch of the texts...its easy to be cordial..but she keeps asking for additional stuff...shes not 14 years old. If she sees all of this innuendo and keeps meeting with him for mentoring..shes getting an unfair advantage over her male colleagues using his attention on her to help her.....but if it doesnt work out shes a victim

http://thebiglead.com/2017/12/15/esp...hn-buccigross/

[packs]

What about her texts suggests mutual attraction to you though? To me it's entirely one sided. She starts a mundane conversation and he tries to steer it in a different direction. The only time a photo of her appears, it's a photo sent by him. He appears shirtless in multiple pics that were totally unsolicited. She never said she had a relationship with this man, so I don't know what you mean when you talk about dating at work.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

What about her texts suggests mutual attraction to you though? To me it's entirely one sided. She starts a mundane conversation and he tries to steer it in a different direction. The only time a photo of her appears, it's a photo sent by him. He appears shirtless in multiple pics that were totally unsolicited. She never said she had a relationship with this man, so I don't know what you mean when you talk about dating at work.

well she admits to having dinner with him and also invites him over for carrot cake.

plus if you say 'i love pearl jam' in response to someone saying they have tickets to them for example and has taken you to dinner before then its very likely he will say 'do you want to go to a concert?' Thats not totally unsolicited if he asks her that for example.

If she is a guy she doesnt get this type of attention obviously. There are a lot of female mentors out there as well they wont ask you to dinner but they will give you attention based on your talent and potential. There are guys that will do that as well but probably not from someone that is fine taking you out to dinner right in the beginning.

Can always say 'i not interested in a relationship but interested in mentoring etc' Maybe you just get ignored after that and maybe thats why she does not say that\\

she is married by the way.(at least thats what i saw on the 'net) It doesnt appear that buccigross knows anything about her schedule or what kind of assignments she was given, yet she would like to meet up with him for dinner. What her husband think about this...


Also shes is not a lamb in the woods..she is a big time attorney...supervised 45 lawyers at a big big time law firms..and fought sex harassment cases.....so she knows the system...i dont see her saying anything in the texts about creating some boundaries to avoid misunderstandings

"Lawrence was able to use her legal expertise in her work as an analyst at ESPN. She wrote a response on espnW to the attorney for Yale basketball player Jack Montague, who was expelled because of a sexual misconduct accusation. She also provided analysis on the Derrick Rose and Ryan Lochte cases."

[chaddurbin]

well i'm a huge bucci fan...but again good to know i'm on the opposite side of another boynton argument. it validates my day!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

This sexual harassment and #MeToo crap is dangerous and has gotten way out of hand.

For the record, my fiancee and I met when she was my boss. As long as it's kept professional at work, they didn't care.

I think we can all agree that flirting with someone,while inappropriate in some situations, is not that big a deal in others. There is a lot of distance between flirting with someone and repeatedly demanding sex as a way of getting ahead professionally, pushing someone against a wall, locking them in an office, or worse.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I think we can all agree that flirting with someone,while inappropriate in some situations, is not that big a deal in others. There is a lot of distance between flirting with someone and repeatedly demanding sex as a way of getting ahead professionally, pushing someone against a wall, locking them in an office, or worse.

I also do think along with the power dynamic you need to see who the alleged victim is

I think most of you thought lawrence was a 22 year old out of college lady getting a foothold in the business.

instead she is a big time attorney and professor and oversaw 45 attorneys who each of those lawyers had to making over 6 figures.....she likely has over millions in earnings in her career..... the law firms she worked for (in a management role )are the top earners in the country

i think the wolf and the lamb are a bit reversed here......she didnt mind the attention and was not naive.....im sure any of her male colleagues were not inviting Bucci for carrot cake and arranging late night dinners..

[HRBAKER]

How many married men text shirtless pictures of themselves to other women. Must be a fairly common occurrence and I am way behind the times again. Criminal, probably not, stupid and ill-advised in this situation - yes.

[packs]

That's the thing, this is an issue of professionalism. These texts from him are clearly not professional and nothing would convince me they were. Cake and dinners are not invitations for sex and that's exactly the kind of thinking that people are trying to end. Just because a woman is nice to you or would like to have a professional relationship with you, that's not an invitation for constant flirting or unsolicited photos of your body.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

That's the thing, this is an issue of professionalism. These texts from him are clearly not professional and nothing would convince me they were. Cake and dinners are not invitations for sex and that's exactly the kind of thinking that people are trying to end. Just because a woman is nice to you or would like to have a professional relationship with you, that's not an invitation for constant flirting or unsolicited photos of your body.

What are invitations for sex? Everything doesnt always point A to B. Dinner and drinks after 9 pm can lead to sex sometimes

In the texts back and forth she didnt stop texting him after the photo...so you cant say its unsolicited, there is some type of approval going on, as she continues to text him She isnt a 22 year old out of school....shes a 14 year experienced big time attorney (with sex descrim cases that she has handled no less on her record)

Just because a woman wants to be your friend doesnt mean a man has to be their friend. For lots of people in their busy lives, they have time for a girlfriend but not another friend. He may already have lots of friends. She had unique access to him that her male colleague likely did not. She played a part in all of this is all that i am saying, its not like she just got out of college etc.

I know if i asked a guy i just met if i can meet him for dinner and invite him over a night for carrot cake, you can say all you want about professionalism etc, society would view that as a bid odd especially early early on in knowing someone. Change the guy to a younger woman meeting with a man, and not sure what change of thinking would be needed. Can always do lunch meetings during the work day, that screams professionalism to me versus late night dinners and carrot cakes at someone's house but maybe thats just me.

If you could tell that he wanted more than just dinner, how come she couldn't...

[HRBAKER]

I guess if we find out she sent him a shirtless photo then we could make an inference...............

[Snapolit1]

It’s not that difficult. Ask yourself how cool you would be with some dude doing this to your daughter. Probably not one bit. You’d want to hunt him down and bust his kneecaps. Same answer when it’s someone else’s daughter.

[1952boyntoncollector]

If your daughter was in her mid 30s a hard core litigator and litigated sex desrim cases and has millions in the bank i would assume she could take care of herself.

I would probably tell her that having dinners late night with people you do not know well at their house may not be very professional as well and not advisable if she is not looking for a new boyfriend etc....

We also forget Buccigross was not exactly killing as as a 'superior' everyone was shocked he wasnt laid off just a few months ago with other hockey staff...he was pretty far down superiority wise

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I guess if we find out she sent him a shirtless photo then we could make an inference...............

how many younger good looking woman have you invited over for late night carrot cake....

that could appear to be as much as an overture as sending a male photo with no shirt on..

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

how many younger good looking woman have you invited over for late night carrot cake....

that could appear to be as much as an overture as sending a male photo with no shirt on..

Obviously none as I am married and not a dumbass.

I am also not as astute as deciphering cues as you, I would take the photo as a much more overt gesture than an invite for carrot cake.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Obviously none as I am married and not a dumbass.

I am also not as astute as deciphering cues as you, I would take the photo as a much more overt gesture than an invite for carrot cake.

well no shirt on isnt the same thing as showing other parts. The invite for late night carrot cake is more of an overt gesture than inviting someone to lunch. Everything is relative. We can play the relative game all day. I just saying its not an innocent little girl versus a big bad wolf.

Incidentally with all of these people losing their jobs, Bocci hasnt lost his at the present time so there are many people that dont agree with you.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

well no shirt on isnt the same thing as showing other parts. The invite for late night carrot cake is more of an overt gesture than inviting someone to lunch. Everything is relative. We can play the relative game all day. I just saying its not an innocent little girl versus a big bad wolf.

Incidentally with all of these people losing their jobs, Bocci hasnt lost his at the present time so there are many people that dont agree with you.

Well it certainly isn't the first time someone hasn't agreed with me.

How many married men do you know that have texted shirtless photos of themselves to people they work with? Maybe it's a very common occurrence. I am not saying it's innocent little girl against big bad wolf. I will say in today's climate it would be an extremely dumbass thing to do.

[packs]

ESPN for some reason is actively protecting Buccigross. They released doctored text messages and totally edited out the photos he sent of himself. They have an interest in retaining him despite his behavior. That doesn't mean what he did wasn't wrong.

[HRBAKER]

Not without precedent there, Mr. Tirico was suspended but retained I believe in the early 90's after harassment allegations.

[packs]

They didn't fire Berman either.

[chaddurbin]

I dont get the sense they're protecting bucci, but rather they want to show an example of the type of "friendly" banter that go on between coworkers that can skirt the line...and this is what they came up with.

This is much tamer than tirico stalking people and the type of language he uses....different time no way hed get away with that kind of behavior today. Unless he works at nfl network.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

ESPN for some reason is actively protecting Buccigross. They released doctored text messages and totally edited out the photos he sent of himself. They have an interest in retaining him despite his behavior. That doesn't mean what he did wasn't wrong.

In todays enviroment its a big statement to keep someone. I think the bar is much lower to get fired now which says something that they are still keeping him.

They may be waiting to see if any other woman come out of the woodwork. However, if zero come out, it wouldnt be like he was praying on the interns.

Correct, it would be wrong/awkard to send a shirtless photo but given the circumstances, this is pretty minor and petty given who she is and given what we are comparing him too in the media ie. weinstein/lauder etc

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Well it certainly isn't the first time someone hasn't agreed with me.

How many married men do you know that have texted shirtless photos of themselves to people they work with? Maybe it's a very common occurrence. I am not saying it's innocent little girl against big bad wolf. I will say in today's climate it would be an extremely dumbass thing to do.

I think there are a lot of men who ended up marrying or having consensual relationships with woman have sent a lot more graphic a photo then shirtless.

1 out of 2 marriages do end in divorce. I have a feeling among the entertainment industry with long hours where people are married to their job it may be higher than that but that doesnt matter.

The marriage thing means nothing. I not sure why someone's marital status is brought up. Woman date married men all the time, so im told.

I think Tavis Smiley is fighting his accusers now. Theres going to be a time where the alleged perpetrator turns out to be a victim.

[1952boyntoncollector]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...?event=event12

I read the affidavit of Ms Lawrence. I now do think she has a real gripe. If Bucci is saying it was just a mentor/mentee relationship then thats hard to believe. She really was the exact wrong person to treat that way given her background and experience. I was surprised she was making 233k a year at her law firm and the espn job only paid her 75k...

[HRBAKER]

If I sent that photo to someone I worked with in the middle of a similar stream of conversation to what had taken place up to that point, I would not count on being "vigorous defended" by my my employer.

[autograf]

I think, in some instances, this current environment has gotten a little out of control. I cannot, however, see any instance where it would be anything other than suggestive of something more to text a shirtless picture of yourself to a female coworker. I'm not sure why you would text ANY photo of yourself to a female coworker, really. I do know that no one wants a shirtless photo of me, fortunately. I would not stand for that and I definitely wouldn't sit for one, that's for sure.

I haven't seen the pictures at hand and if I knew a coworker was an attorney and had worked on sexual discrimination cases, I sure as HELL wouldn't be sending her anything like that, just in case something nefarious was going on. Doesn't sound like Bucci was too smart in all this and I agree she may not be as innocent as some would make her out. It's just stupid. We've had some people fired here at work 10-12 years ago for something similar....just emails back and forth with no apparent interaction but they were explicit. Guess everyone has some type of hot button that needs to get pushed from time to time.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I dont think it happened here but generally...can we all agree

That in modern workplace relationships with people that are into texts and photos of themselves

Eventually, one of the people in the potential dating relationship will send a photo of them...maybe shirt off..maybe more......someone has to be the first to send...... so at that point they are either a freak if they dont get a picture back or they are in agreed relationship now if they get a like photo back.

Its not like photos are sent simultaneously.........if you are a guy, you are taking a chance now more than ever if you are wrong about you believe the girl thinks about you.

in the baseball card world, there are people that want the money first before they send the card. There are some buyers worried they will take the money and not send the card. However, if the buyer is wrong, they have recourse, they can get their money back if through credit card or ebay etc.

if you send a picture and you are wrong about who you sent it too., theres no getting it back!!!

[packs]

If you can't tell whether or not someone is romantically interested in you then my advice would be to assume they're not and I would definitely advise against sending photos of your body to find out.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by packs

If you can't tell whether or not someone is romantically interested in you then my advice would be to assume they're not and I would definitely advise against sending photos of your body to find out.

Stop making sense.

"I'm so into me and I'm sure you will be too once you see this."

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

If you can't tell whether or not someone is romantically interested in you then my advice would be to assume they're not and I would definitely advise against sending photos of your body to find out.

well again, there are many many relationships where photos are exchanged. All i am saying is someone has to be the one to send first.

When this happens 1000s of times....there is bound to be a misunderstanding of what one thought of the relationship. In todays enviroment the ramifications are tough.

People get married all the time and both people believe they will be with each other forever and make promises...yet 1 out of 2 fail. So sometimes a mistake may of been made in that instance as well. Mistakes happen. (By the way i have heard countless stories of married couples that say someone kept pursuing them and they said no but later changed their mind and married that person)

I would rather get a photo and tell the person im not into them and that be the end of it.

[kailes2872]

I won’t comment on the potential harassment other then to exhale and thank the good Lord that camera phones and social media were not a thing in my formative (read:dumb) years.

I will say that I thought that Adrienne Lawrence was horrible on air. She did radio sports center on the Ryen Russillo show and would try to “cool it up” by providing the “dete’s” (her word not mine, thankfully). She would stammer and stutter through her 2 minutes on a daily basis to the point that it was unlistenable. So when i no longer heard her on the air I figured it was due to poor performance.

She is confusing causation and correlation. Her poor performance was the reason that she was not renewed, not the Bucci issue.