Was Steve Carlton a racist and anti semite?

[Chuck9788]

I've read that HOF pitcher Steve Carlton was labeled as a racist and anti semite.

I've also read that he strongly denied the allegations.


Could anyone please help clear this issue up for me?

[D. Bergin]

A cursory look at Carlton on Google shows that perhaps he was/is a bit of a crackpot conspiracy theorist and he preferred to throw to Tim McCarver rather then Bob Boone.

Other then that, I would guess only people who really know him would know the answer to that, as he's been pretty tight-lipped throughout his life.

[pclpads]

A blanket allegation like that on a public forum such as this, implies - for the world to see - that he was both. If he was neither, you have done him a grave injustice, smearing his name, that a later, "Gosh, I was wrong and I'm sorry," would never correct. To make such an unattributed charge, you need to first cite your source(s) and not a "I've read that . . ." For that matter, why is it important if he was either and why does it matter to you?

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by pclpads

A blanket allegation like that on a public forum such as this, implies - for the world to see - that he was both. If he was neither, you have done him a grave injustice, smearing his name, that a later, "Gosh, I was wrong and I'm sorry," would never correct. To make such an unattributed charge, you need to first cite your source(s) and not a "I've read that . . ." For that matter, why is it important if he was either and why does it matter to you?

+1

At an absolute minimum, this seems like one of those posts where the person should be required to post their real name, as opposed to hiding behind a forum id.

Steve

[packs]

These allegations come from an article Pat Jordan wrote years ago for Philadelphia magazine. Carlton said he never said what he was quoted as saying. No comments on the comments but I enjoyed Pat Jordan's book "A False Spring" and he has been a member of the media and sports journalism for a long time.

I was able to track down the original article text: https://thestacks.deadspin.com/thin-...d-co-478492324

[Chuck9788]

Originally Posted by Steve D

+1

At an absolute minimum, this seems like one of those posts where the person should be required to post their real name, as opposed to hiding behind a forum id.

Steve

The original post was a fair question. My name is Chuck, why would my full name be important in any way?!?


Carlton Denies He Made Anti-Semitic Comments
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-..._steve-carlton


Pitcher and Reporter Are at Odds over Alleged Anti-semitic Remarks
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-..._steve-carlton


Carlton denies anti-Semitic comments, apologizes
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1994/04...2772766296000/

[JMEnglish27]

Originally Posted by Chuck9788

The original post was a fair question. My name is Chuck, why would my full name be important in any way?!?

Because you're using his.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by bigj7489

Because you're using his.

That's okay, we'll just call you, appropriately, Chuck 'n Duck!

[CW]

Chuck, the OP, did not give his opinion of Steve Carlton, did he? He's just asking a question.

sincerely,
Chuck

[ALR-bishop]

All I know about Mr Carlton is that the Cardinals had him and somehow thought trading him for Rick "Wise" was a good idea.

[Leon]

+1

Originally Posted by CW

Chuck, the OP, did not give his opinion of Steve Carlton, did he? He's just asking a question.

sincerely,
Chuck

[clydepepper]

I read somewhere that Jim Palmer used to wet his bed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well, he was an oenophile.

[seanofjapan]

So after reading the articles linked to, am I to understand that the only evidence to back any of this up is a single comment allegedly made 25 years ago, which Carlton denies having made, basically just referencing some nut job conspiracy theory, to a reporter who himself says Carlton is definitely not racist or anti Semitic?

It’s pretty thin.

[Snapolit1]

Guy has been the subject of a number of articles in the LA Times and someone thinks it's unfair that a simple question was asked on this colleting board? Weird response in people getting all defensive for Steve Carlton. Same question is asked about prominent public figures every day in the press.

[ALR-bishop]

Appreciate you injecting a political inference into the thread. Well done.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Appreciate you injecting a political inference into the thread. Well done.

+1

[Leon]

sigh, no politics please

[frankbmd]

I have reason to suspect Mario Andretti.

[Snapolit1]

Modified accordingly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I have reason to suspect Mario Andretti.

He and Carlton were contemporaries.

[mq711]

In his playing days, Carlton was anti-press and not very fond of autograph collectors but has mellowed with age.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

+1

So it's sort of like jeopardy?
We can dodge that rule by making any opinion be in the form of a question?

Good to know.

[ALR-bishop]

Is Steve being sarcastic here ?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by steve B

So it's sort of like jeopardy?
We can dodge that rule by making any opinion be in the form of a question?

Good to know.

Sure thing....dodge until I see it. The way I read it the OP asked a legitimate question and didn't give an opinion of a person or company.

[D. Bergin]

LOL, I guess this begs the question, can one be an Anti-Semite, without being a racist and visa versa?

I think I know the answer and nearly all the possible responses, but let the chicken and the egg scenarios begin.

I apologize ahead of time for stirring up sh*t in this thread.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Is Steve being sarcastic here ?

Steve the Poster or Steve the Carlton?

[ALR-bishop]

Yes

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

LOL, I guess this begs the question, can one be an Anti-Semite, without being a racist and visa versa?

I think I know the answer and nearly all the possible responses, but let the chicken and the egg scenarios begin.

I apologize ahead of time for stirring up sh*t in this thread.

I would say absolutely. Judaism is not a race. Additionally, what would prevent someone who is Jewish from being intolerant of someone who is Asian, Black, Latino etc.?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Leon

Sure thing....dodge until I see it. The way I read it the OP asked a legitimate question and didn't give an opinion of a person or company.

Well, I usually don't do that, so no worries here.

To me the question came across as odd, since I wasn't aware of any controversy. I suppose someone running across that old article might have questions. It just seemed odd at first.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by mq711

In his playing days, Carlton was anti-press and not very fond of autograph collectors but has mellowed with age.

Well, if you read the "old" article he's doing it for income.

Originally Posted by steve B

Well, I usually don't do that, so no worries here.

To me the question came across as odd, since I wasn't aware of any controversy. I suppose someone running across that old article might have questions. It just seemed odd at first.

Struck me as odd too, if you take the article at face value. How much can anybody know about Carlton w/o reading about and trusting what the authors' write is not 'embellished'?

Also, although the OP's question was innocent he's relying on the opinion of others' who actually have the nerve to post a full name in their replies

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Paul S

Well, if you read the "old" article he's doing it for income.


Struck me as odd too, if you take the article at face value. How much can anybody know about Carlton w/o reading about and trusting what the authors' write is not 'embellished'?

Also, although the OP's question was innocent he's relying on the opinion of others' who actually have the nerve to post a full name in their replies

Yeah, like you?
.

[packs]

I have no opinion on Carlton but as a fellow writer I want to point out that Pat Jordan was/is a very prominent sports journalist and it would be highly unusual for him to make something up in one of his articles.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Leon

Yeah, like you?
.

I was wondering who would the first. I'm glad it was you. All fixed now.

[Exhibitman]

Well we've always known Carlton was odd; seems he's gone round the bend to weird. Also sounds like he should take advantage of the laws in CO and smoke a bowl or two...

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Well we've always known Carlton was odd; seems he's gone round the bend to weird. Also sounds like he should take advantage of the laws in CO and smoke a bowl or two...

...and invite Goose to join him...

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Leon

Sure thing....dodge until I see it. The way I read it the OP asked a legitimate question and didn't give an opinion of a person or company.

Asking a question like that is close enough to stating an opinion or making an accusation. I wouldn't want anyone starting a thread like that, that questions my integrity, especially if they were allowed to remain anonymous. And I'm pretty sure Mr. Carlton would feel the same way if he ever stumbled upon this site and thread.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CW

Chuck, the OP, did not give his opinion of Steve Carlton, did he? He's just asking a question.

sincerely,
Chuck

When did you stop beating your wife hitting is also a question.

Just asking a questions isnt' just asking when one of the answers would mean you are a socially unacceptable person...

or like when my wife asks me, what are you doing this weekend? i always afraid to answer because one of the answers may be wrong..

[Peter_Spaeth]

I still don't get the notion of hiding behind a screen name. On a forum discussing health issues, sure, there's a privacy concern. But baseball cards?

[Leon]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am pretty sure you can't say how someone else will feel because you aren't them.
And, as always is done and evidenced by precedent, if this thread had your name in the title I would send you the name of the OP privately. That has been done in numerous other instances. IF Steve asks me for the OPs full name I will tell him. Same if it was about you, I would tell you. Everyone, imo, has a right to know who is saying stuff in their direction but mandating a full name is a bit more invasive and not required unless an opinion is given. A question probably won't require a full name.

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Asking a question like that is close enough to stating an opinion or making an accusation. I wouldn't want anyone starting a thread like that, that questions my integrity, especially if they were allowed to remain anonymous. And I'm pretty sure Mr. Carlton would feel the same way if he ever stumbled upon this site and thread.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

...and invite Goose to join him...

Nah, Goose is more of the crazy old man shouting angrily at the rain.

[CW]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I still don't get the notion of hiding behind a screen name. On a forum discussing health issues, sure, there's a privacy concern. But baseball cards?

Well, since you asked I can give one good reason for not disclosing your name on a forum like this: continuously posting expensive baseball cards from one's collection could potentially open oneself up for future theft or attempted burglary, even if you do not keep your cards in the home.

I believe it was Lionel Carter who once said once your collection gets large and has some value, it becomes difficult to share it with others because you are not sure who to trust.

[packs]

There are also unhinged people in the world who can do a lot of damage with a name and some locally identifying details. Everyone's employer is only an e-mail away and people are free to make up anything they want.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by CW

I believe it was Lionel Carter who once said once your collection gets large and has some value, it becomes difficult to share it with others because you are not sure who to trust.

Coincidentally, Chuck, I watched the video Mastro produced about Lionel Carter's collection just a couple of nights ago (I probably watch it two or three times a year). Mr. Carter referenced that very thing. Here he had this fantastic collection, a veritable history of the sport and the hobby, yet he couldn't show anybody outside of his most trusted inner circle because of theft concerns. A good portion of his collection was stolen, despite his caution, but most of it was eventually found by the police.

The video makes for a stark contrast. Mr. Carter was such a class act, yet when I see Bill Mastro speaking, it makes my skin crawl.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Now more than ever, I believe there was more to that theft than met the eye. And as I recall the collection was returned intact, not recovered by the police.

[ronniehatesjazz]

I know it’s the water cooler section but I really wish the whole subject of racism/sexsim/politics would be off limits here. I get bombarded by it 24/7... television, work, school, family dinners, I’m even subjected to it at the grocery store checkout where I have nothing to stare at but tabloids as I’m stuck in line due to some poor chap having to be both a cashier and bag boy. Also the whole topic has became like some cheesy 80’s drama. Let’s all just talk about our feelings when it’s truly all about posturing to inflate one’s own ego. Just disgraceful IMO and the whole message is lost. Sorry for ranting but it’s just so frustrating to constantly have it thrown into your face and even more tiring and depressing that you can forecast the responses verbatim.

[gopherfan]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

I know it’s the water cooler section but I really wish the whole subject of racism/sexsim/politics would be off limits here. I get bombarded by it 24/7... television, work, school, family dinners, I’m even subjected to it at the grocery store checkout where I have nothing to stare at but tabloids as I’m stuck in line due to some poor chap having to be both a cashier and bag boy. Also the whole topic has became like some cheesy 80’s drama. Let’s all just talk about our feelings when it’s truly all about posturing to inflate one’s own ego. Just disgraceful IMO and the whole message is lost. Sorry for ranting but it’s just so frustrating to constantly have it thrown into your face and even more tiring and depressing that you can forecast the responses verbatim.

I really like your avatar.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

I really like your avatar.

Haha, well touche! It's more a play on the 80's than anything else... I'm surprised the username and avatar don't ring a bell for anyone on here.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I still don't get the notion of hiding behind a screen name. On a forum discussing health issues, sure, there's a privacy concern. But baseball cards?

I agree, if you don't have any conviction in what you are saying don't say it. Even if you are anonymous or if your name is out there.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I still don't get the notion of hiding behind a screen name. On a forum discussing health issues, sure, there's a privacy concern. But baseball cards?

Here's one "notion" that may not have occurred to many. First off, I have been a board member since the days of the old software platform. The only reason my join date is 2011 is that I took about 18 months off during the changeover, and so some of my data, post count, etc., did not carry over.

During almost all of this period, my son was being victimized through most of his school years. If it wasn't verbal abuse, it was, for example, tossing his new gym sneakers into a toilet bowl full of feces. These were not rare occurrences - it was incessant. AND, these sort of things carried over to social media. (it was all heartbreaking, to say the least, and still is today). So, I kept my full name off my posts, as it would have been easy pickins for the cretins to look me up and phuck with my son even more.

I am happy to report that this all ended when he entered college. Hence I am a bit overdue in finally using my full name. (Anyway, at least 100 members have known my name through the BST, private deals or just plain community friendship). Hence, I gotta lotta opinions stored up after all this time so all youse (sic) better watch out!

And so, I have to believe there are many anons here that have legit reasons, if not exactly my own, to be so on a baseball card forum