2018 NBA Finals

[KMayUSA6060]

I haven't watched more than 3 or 4 Cavs games this year (I hate LeBron), but I did watch last night.

Ridiculous game. The refs were pathetic. JR Smith is a massive, massive idiot. And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I haven't watched more than 3 or 4 Cavs games this year (I hate LeBron), but I did watch last night.

Ridiculous game. The refs were pathetic. JR Smith is a massive, massive idiot. And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.

Hey, it's BASEBALL Season anyway!

AND The National Spelling Bee was last night too! That was lots of fun...those kids are amazing! One girl sounded like she had swallowed some helium.

… so you don't HAVE TO watch the nba.


.

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.

This ^^^^^^^

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Hey, it's BASEBALL Season anyway!

AND The National Spelling Bee was last night too! That was lots of fun...those kids are amazing! One girl sounded like she had swallowed some helium.

… so you don't HAVE TO watch the nba.


.

Correct on it being baseball season. At one point, I had the pleasure of watching the Cavs get screwed by the refs AND dribble out the clock in a tie game, while flipping over to my Indians blowing an 8-0 lead (our bullpen is the worst I've ever seen). At least Lindor knew the game was tied and we needed a run, unlike JR.

I have never been able to get into the National Spelling Bee. Those kids are amazing, but watching them spell words (words that they will more than likely never use ever again) is only slightly more interesting than watching paint dry or grass grow.

[frankbmd]

I don’t believe there will be a spelling bee option for game 2.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I haven't watched more than 3 or 4 Cavs games this year (I hate LeBron), but I did watch last night.

Ridiculous game. The refs were pathetic. JR Smith is a massive, massive idiot. And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.

The dangling mouthpiece is really getting old.
How can you not admire Lebron though, what a wondrous player.

[D. Bergin]

That was a fascinating game, poor reffing or not................and it wasn't as bad or as one-sided as Van Gundy (who looooooooves Lebron) and Mark Jackson (who passive aggressively has hated Golden State ever since they fired him) made it seem.

Calls will start to go the Cavs way anyways, if Golden State gets too comfortable or threatens a sweep. That's the way it always goes in the NBA with the refs. Try to extend the series as long as possible.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I haven't watched more than 3 or 4 Cavs games this year (I hate LeBron), but I did watch last night.

Ridiculous game. The refs were pathetic. JR Smith is a massive, massive idiot. And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.

LOL, I always try and take a different angle on things rather then piling on the goat. What about George Hill missing that free throw to begin with, or the much shorter and boxed out J.R. Smith out-muscling Kevin Durant for that rebound to begin with, that put him in position for that brain fart?

Cavs still had overtime to try and win the game, and they just folded (including a pouting Lebron) after Hill missed that free throw.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The dangling mouthpiece is really getting old.
How can you not admire Lebron though, what a wondrous player.

I live in the Akron area and know people who have interacted with LeBron over the years. I have not heard good things about him. Not a huge fan of him at all. I also don't think he's as great of a basketball player as everyone says he is. I think he's a better businessman and has completely changed the landscape of the NBA to benefit his brand.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

That was a fascinating game, poor reffing or not................and it wasn't as bad or as one-sided as Van Gundy (who looooooooves Lebron) and Mark Jackson (who passive aggressively has hated Golden State ever since they fired him) made it seem.

Calls will start to go the Cavs way anyways, if Golden State gets too comfortable or threatens a sweep. That's the way it always goes in the NBA with the refs. Try to extend the series as long as possible.

So screwing over the biggest underdog in the last, what, 17 years, essentially leading them to a loss is supposed to extend the series?

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

LOL, I always try and take a different angle on things rather then piling on the goat. What about George Hill missing that free throw to begin with, or the much shorter and boxed out J.R. Smith out-muscling Kevin Durant for that rebound to begin with, that put him in position for that brain fart?

Cavs still had overtime to try and win the game, and they just folded (including a pouting Lebron) after Hill missed that free throw.

Yes Hill missed the free throw, but should've had a second chance at it due to the uncalled lane violation by Draymond. And yes, the Cavs folded after they blew the end of regulation, another massive flaw of LeBron's - he's mentally weak.

[Peter_Spaeth]

IMO you have something personal against LeBron that is coloring your view of him as a basketball player. Mentally weak is about the last charge that can be hung on him. He isn't going to come up the hero every single time, nobody is. As for Smith, stuff happens in the heat of the moment in all that deafening noise.

[barrysloate]

Smith played a few seasons with the Knicks, so I got to see him play regularly. He never impressed me, and often did stupid things. Occasionally he had a hot streak and piled up some points, but he never did anything to make the Knicks a better team. And they tired of him quickly.

And Lebron may not be likable, I have no insight into his personal life, but the guy is a monster basketball player, and has carried the team for the past two months. He has taken a mediocre team to the Finals when there were seemingly better ones in the East, such as Toronto and Boston. I know he can rub fans the wrong way, but I can't find fault with the way he plays.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In addition to his otherworldly talents and ability to play pretty much any position, he is as intelligent a player as I have ever seen. No player in history has singlehandedly carried a team, it's not the nature of the sport, but LeBron is as close as anyone. And remind me, when was the last finals in which he was not playing?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Smith played a few seasons with the Knicks, so I got to see him play regularly. He never impressed me, and often did stupid things. Occasionally he had a hot streak and piled up some points, but he never did anything to make the Knicks a better team. And they tired of him quickly.

And Lebron may not be likable, I have no insight into his personal life, but the guy is a monster basketball player, and has carried the team for the past two months. He has taken a mediocre team to the Finals when there were seemingly better ones in the East, such as Toronto and Boston. I know he can rub fans the wrong way, but I can't find fault with the way he plays.

A mediocre team he built. He was the one that fought for Tristan Thompson to get a massive contract a few years ago, which has handicapped the team greatly financially. He was the one that got Blatt fired and replaced him with Lue, who is an absolute joke and is only there because LeBron can easily control him. He is the one behind the scenes approving/making the moves for players. He's the player version of Jerry Jones, and it's horrible.

I have a theory that he keeps a relatively mediocre team around him as a crutch and to build his brand. If he fails, everyone blames the mediocre team around him. If he succeeds, he looks like the GOAT. Like I said previously, I think he's a better businessman than basketball player.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In addition to his otherworldly talents and ability to play pretty much any position, he is as intelligent a player as I have ever seen. No player in history has singlehandedly carried a team, it's not the nature of the sport, but LeBron is as close as anyone. And remind me, when was the last finals in which he was not playing?

Is he really that intelligent basketball wise? He hardly plays defense, aside from the one or two SportsCenter-worthy plays. He settles for longer jump shots where a layup/closer shot would be way better, especially with his physical superiority. He's never been a good free throw shooter, which is embarrassing. He loves playing isolation/hero ball, instead of promoting ball movement which is the backbone of a strong offense.

2009? That's a lot of participation trophies, considering he's only won, what, 3 of them?

People have fallen in love with LeBron because he is a once-in-a-generation talent, no doubt, but more so because he has changed the entire landscape of the NBA to hide his flaws.

[Peter_Spaeth]

He averaged over 9 assists per game this year. His career average is over 7. Are you watching the same player as I am? Jordan's average was just over 5, was he a ball hog too?

[barrysloate]

Kyle- since you live in Ohio and the Cavaliers are your home team, you obviously know more about what goes on than I do. I'm just a fan watching Lebron having monster games and taking a team that should have been knocked out by the second round into the Finals. And it's hard for me to find anything wrong with the way he is playing. I realize there is other stuff going on.

Look, I have to watch the Knicks and Nets every night. You've got the Cavs. You win!

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He averaged over 9 assists per game this year. His career average is over 7. Are you watching the same player as I am? Jordan's average was just over 5, was he a ball hog too?

Have I said that LeBron is a bad player? He's always been a great passer. However, assists can be deceiving and not produce or be a product of ball movement per se. The iso/hero ball I was talking about is something that's wrong with the NBA in general, but LeBron has made a living, literally living and dying by iso/hero ball in crunch time or at important moments throughout a game. I would also venture to say that assists are easier to come by nowadays with the lazy defense exhibited in today's NBA.

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Kyle- since you live in Ohio and the Cavaliers are your home team, you obviously know more about what goes on than I do. I'm just a fan watching Lebron having monster games and taking a team that should have been knocked out by the second round into the Finals. And it's hard for me to find anything wrong with the way he is playing. I realize there is other stuff going on.

Look, I have to watch the Knicks and Nets every night. You've got the Cavs. You win!

I didn't mean to come off as if I was directing anything at you personally. I was just pointing out factors that surround LeBron that people don't pay attention to.

I've got the Browns, too, which automatically cancels out one of the two good teams in Cleveland. Haha.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am sure there were people who found fault with Jordan, and Magic, and Kareem. LeBron is one of the very few best players of all time, if not the best, and I think you are in a small minority criticizing him.

And your analysis that he wants a mediocre team around him strikes me as borderline insane. Recall LeBron went to Miami with the Big Three. He wants to win. That has always defined him.

[barrysloate]

Didn't take it personally Kyle...and I forgot about the Browns, that's brutal. Not that the Jets and Giants are world-beaters. Except for the Yankees, we have a lot of crappy teams in New York.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am sure there were people who found fault with Jordan, and Magic, and Kareem. LeBron is one of the very few best players of all time, if not the best, and I think you are in a small minority criticizing him.

And your analysis that he wants a mediocre team around him strikes me as borderline insane. Recall LeBron went to Miami with the Big Three. He wants to win. That has always defined him.

Never said he wasn't one of the best, but he has the talent to be the best yet lacks the mental toughness and/or intelligence to achieve that honor.

Yes, I remember very vividly when LeBron went to Miami to create the Big Three. He did it because he wanted the easy road, yet still lost, what, 2 titles down there?

LeBron is not above criticism.

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Didn't take it personally Kyle...and I forgot about the Browns, that's brutal. Not that the Jets and Giants are world-beaters. Except for the Yankees, we have a lot of crappy teams in New York.

You're telling me.

Speaking of the Yankees, are y'all ready to move Betances?

[Peter_Spaeth]

You're all over the map. First you say he wants to be on a mediocre team so he can stand out, then you say he took the easy way out to be on a great team. He can't win with you. Saying he lacks the intelligence to be the best is contrary to the near-universal assessment of him -- it's his greatest attribute. He has a prodigious memory and understanding of the game. And I just don't know what games you watch if you think he lacks mental toughness.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You're all over the map. First you say he wants to be on a mediocre team so he can stand out, then you say he took the easy way out to be on a great team. He can't win with you. Saying he lacks the intelligence to be the best is contrary to the near-universal assessment of him -- it's his greatest attribute. He has a prodigious memory and understanding of the game. And I just don't know what games you watch if you think he lacks mental toughness.

Look, we're going to agree to disagree on LeBron. It is what it is. You and many other people think he's the greatest of all time. I think he's one of the best, but has fallen short of his full potential. You also think he has a high basketball IQ. I think his business acumen is higher than his basketball IQ, hence the state of the NBA right now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Look, we're going to agree to disagree on LeBron. It is what it is. You and many other people think he's the greatest of all time. I think he's one of the best, but has fallen short of his full potential. You also think he has a high basketball IQ. I think his business acumen is higher than his basketball IQ, hence the state of the NBA right now.

I would rank him up there among the very top few with Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Russell. It would be hard for me to split hairs among those five.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would rank him up there among the very top few with Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Russell. It would be hard for me to split hairs among those five.

Correct, and my point is I think LeBron's full potential would separate him from those other 4.

[samosa4u]

GSW are a bunch of b*tches. In the 2016 Finals, they were up 3-1 in the series, and look at the stupid things they were doing to LeBron: Draymond hit him in the nuts, while Curry and Klay Thompson were doing so much trash talking - it was pathetic. Then what ended up happening? Cavs won their first ever title. This was probably the biggest choke I have ever seen in the NBA. After that, the GSW began courting Durant. lol What a bunch of losers. I don't care how many titles they win now, but nothing will ever erase that. Oh, and I hope next time the NBA sends Durant to India, a Bengal tiger eats him.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

A mediocre team he built. He was the one that fought for Tristan Thompson to get a massive contract a few years ago, which has handicapped the team greatly financially. He was the one that got Blatt fired and replaced him with Lue, who is an absolute joke and is only there because LeBron can easily control him. He is the one behind the scenes approving/making the moves for players. He's the player version of Jerry Jones, and it's horrible.

What's so horrible about it, dude? He took a garbage team to the Finals four times in a row! You shouldn't be complaining about him having too much power in the Cavs organization because he definitely knows what he is doing.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

He settles for longer jump shots where a layup/closer shot would be way better, especially with his physical superiority.

He has been shooting a lot from behind the arc during this series, but he has to! When you have Curry, Thompson and Durant making 3 pointers non-stop, then you gotta' try and match that. And it's not as if LeBron has been doing a bad job at it. Furthermore, if he keeps driving to the basket all the time, then he is going to risk getting hurt. Look what GSW did to the poor man's eye.

And I agree with Peter, he is a top 5 player.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have no doubt that Curry is a fine young man, but his on court demeanor is unbelievably obnoxious IMO.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no doubt that Curry is a fine young man, but his on court demeanor is unbelievably obnoxious IMO.

Curry is pretty great. I'd do the shimmy every once in awhile to, if I could hit falling down 35 footers with regularity.

Lebron is great to. The best individual player in basketball, and I disagree with almost everything Kevin says about him...........but is there a bigger whiner in the game? Nearly every single play he doesn't convert on something, he's running down the court (or walking) whining to the referees.

I still respect him because he at least initiates contact to try and draw fouls, unlike Harden over in Houston who falls down a dozen times in every game without anybody touching him, turning the ball over at least half a dozen times every game, just trying to bait the refs.

At least Lebron attempts to FINISH every play, before he puts on his boy who cried wolf act.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

What's so horrible about it, dude? He took a garbage team to the Finals four times in a row! You shouldn't be complaining about him having too much power in the Cavs organization because he definitely knows what he is doing.

He has been shooting a lot from behind the arc during this series, but he has to! When you have Curry, Thompson and Durant making 3 pointers non-stop, then you gotta' try and match that. And it's not as if LeBron has been doing a bad job at it. Furthermore, if he keeps driving to the basket all the time, then he is going to risk getting hurt. Look what GSW did to the poor man's eye.

Calling the Cavs a garbage team while saying LeBron has a lot of power in the Cavs organization and knows what he's doing is quite contradictory.

Trying to match the Warriors 3-for-3 isn't how you beat them. The Rockets nearly knocked them out in Game 7 by chipping away 2-by-2 with a high-intensity effort. Had they not gone stone cold (missed, what, 26 or so 3s in a row?), they would have won. Nobody can match the Warriors when they're even semi-on, let alone locked & loaded. It takes effort from all other aspects to beat them. And he might get hurt? Boo hoo. Don't play basketball then. He is physically superior to everyone in the NBA. Not driving out of fear of getting hurt is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no doubt that Curry is a fine young man, but his on court demeanor is unbelievably obnoxious IMO.

100000000% agree about his on-court demeanor. What a putz.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

.....but is there a bigger whiner in the game? Nearly every single play he doesn't convert on something, he's running down the court (or walking) whining to the referees.

No, and it adds to the list of reasons I'm not a fan of LeBron.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Working the officials is part of the game.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Working the officials is part of the game.

Bull. What goes on in today's NBA is a complete lack of respect for the officials and zero accountability. It's also complete arrogance.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Never said he wasn't one of the best, but he has the talent to be the best yet lacks the mental toughness and/or intelligence to achieve that honor.

Yes, I remember very vividly when LeBron went to Miami to create the Big Three. He did it because he wanted the easy road, yet still lost, what, 2 titles down there?

LeBron is not above criticism.



You're telling me.

Speaking of the Yankees, are y'all ready to move Betances?

We already gave Cleveland Andrew Miller, but if I'm not mistaken didn't Glaeber Torres come from that deal? If so, we may have the Rookie of the Year.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Gleyber came from the Cubs , Chapman deal

And no we are not moving Betances hes our 8th inning guy now with all the injuries and others ineffectiveness

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO you have something personal against LeBron that is coloring your view of him as a basketball player. Mentally weak is about the last charge that can be hung on him. He isn't going to come up the hero every single time, nobody is. As for Smith, stuff happens in the heat of the moment in all that deafening noise.

The only play I remember seeing that even compared to Smith running out the clock at the end of a tied finals game was that Chris Webber time out. That may go down as the biggest mental blunder in sports history.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

We already gave Cleveland Andrew Miller, but if I'm not mistaken didn't Glaeber Torres come from that deal? If so, we may have the Rookie of the Year.

No, he came from the Chapman deal with the Cubs. We gave you Justice Sheffield and Clint Frazier for Miller.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The only play I remember seeing that even compared to Smith running out the clock at the end of a tied finals game was that Chris Webber time out. That may go down as the biggest mental blunder in sports history.

Especially given that the series could be 1-1 right now instead of 0-2.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Especially given that the series could be 1-1 right now instead of 0-2.

Those respect-worthy officials didn't exactly help with the absurd reversal of the charge call on Durant. They had no business reviewing that play, there was no reason at all to think LeBron was in the restricted area.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Those respect-worthy officials didn't exactly help with the absurd reversal of the charge call on Durant. They had no business reviewing that play, there was no reason at all to think LeBron was in the restricted area.

The reversal was the correct call, James was not set. The fact that two officials signaled two different calls should have been enough to review it. But whatever the reason for the review, the fact that they made the right call in the end is what matters to me.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Calling the Cavs a garbage team while saying LeBron has a lot of power in the Cavs organization and knows what he's doing is quite contradictory.

There is nothing contradictory about my statement. LeBron has been sailing a broken ship in the right direction for years. He has learned to make the most out of his crappy players. If you don't like him, then please send him to Toronto.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The reversal was the correct call, James was not set. The fact that two officials signaled two different calls should have been enough to review it. But whatever the reason for the review, the fact that they made the right call in the end is what matters to me.

I don't think that's grounds for review, it's grounds for a jump ball.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

There is nothing contradictory about my statement. LeBron has been sailing a broken ship in the right direction for years. He has learned to make the most out of his crappy players. If you don't like him, then please send him to Toronto.

He is the one that has selected his shipmates and put them in positions on the crew to keep the ship broken.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think that's grounds for review, it's grounds for a jump ball.

Bingo.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think that's grounds for review, it's grounds for a jump ball.

I am not sure how the rule is written, but when one ref signals block and the other signals charge, and the call is reviewable, it should be reviewed. Just like that GB vs Sea game the packers got hosed on with the replacement refs. One signaled td, the other int. Not a good look in either situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I am not sure how the rule is written, but when one ref signals block and the other signals charge, and the call is reviewable, it should be reviewed. Just like that GB vs Sea game the packers got hosed on with the replacement refs. One signaled td, the other int. Not a good look in either situation.

The alleged justification for the review was not the difference in whether there was a block or a charge, but rather whether LeBron was in the restricted area. And he was nowhere close.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The alleged justification for the review was not the difference in whether there was a block or a charge, but rather whether LeBron was in the restricted area. And he was nowhere close.

I understand the point you're making. I'm fine with the justification if that's what was necessary to get the call right. If they're not allowed to review the call based solely on the issue of block vs. charge then that rule should be rewritten in my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I understand the point you're making. I'm fine with the justification if that's what was necessary to get the call right. If they're not allowed to review the call based solely on the issue of block vs. charge then that rule should be rewritten in my opinion.

Fine, but the refs are supposed to apply the rule as written, not as you think it should be rewritten.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fine, but the refs are supposed to apply the rule as written, not as you think it should be rewritten.

True, I dont watch much basketball except for late in the playoffs. I couldn't tell you if this is a loop hole that's commonly exploited or if this was a rare occurrence. But it seems odd to me that the issue of block vs charge is reviewable only while reviewing if a player was in the restricted area or not. Why make the issue reviewable at all if it can't be reviewed on it's own? That defies logic in my opinion.

[pokerplyr80]

Here's a link to an article that mentions the points were both making. My guess is this rule gets clarified in the off season.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/...g1ngbe9pl40hdb

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I understand the point you're making. I'm fine with the justification if that's what was necessary to get the call right. If they're not allowed to review the call based solely on the issue of block vs. charge then that rule should be rewritten in my opinion.

If it's all about getting the call right, then why not review every single call throughout the game?

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

True, I dont watch much basketball except for late in the playoffs. I couldn't tell you if this is a loop hole that's commonly exploited or if this was a rare occurrence.

Many people within the game were saying they have never seen what happened, happen before.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

If it's all about getting the call right, then why not review every single call throughout the game?



Many people within the game were saying they have never seen what happened, happen before.

I'm in favor of getting the call right as much as possible in any sport. Especially in key situations late in a game. I'm personally in favor of even reviewing things like ball vs strike, or pass interference if it can be done without drastically slowing down the game.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake

Gleyber came from the Cubs , Chapman deal

And no we are not moving Betances hes our 8th inning guy now with all the injuries and others ineffectiveness

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Thank you. I knew it was one of those relief pitcher trades.

[KMayUSA6060]

The best thing that can happen to the Cavaliers' franchise is LeBron leaving this offseason.

[KMayUSA6060]

LeBron apparently suffered a broken hand after Game 1 when he punched a whiteboard.

Wow.