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#1
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Buy the card, not the grade - stories
I won't post a pic of it again, because there are already two on here in the Mantle thread and in December Pickups - but I just bought a '62 Mantle PSA 5 that I swear is nicer than the last two or three 6's that I went looking for in eBay sold items.
In looking at several other recent purchases, I found a '61 Berra and a '67 Mays - that are - well, also damn nice for the grade in comparision to other comps when I went out looking just because I was curious. I know the saying has been around for awhile, but I'm starting to really put more credence into it. Anyone else have other "Buy the card, not the grade" stories worth sharing? PS - my already shaky opinion on PSA consistency may have taken another hit tonight...
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#2
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I purchased these 3 cards 2 years ago and played a guess the grade game.
All who replied chose the Smalley as the highest grade, as they should have, but he was the lowest of the 3 graded. Personally, I don't have a lot of faith in PSA as they are inconsistent and there has been far too many other stories on here about their grading. The washed out Dimaggio comes to mind, let alone the Wagner.
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 12-07-2018 at 11:23 PM. |
#3
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Wow. That Smalley has 6 or 7 corners. Yeah, I agree - just too many examples even recently where it's like what? In '60s and '70s cards, I have a few 5's that look better than some of my other 6's, and at least one 6 that probably could have been a 7. I understand that at least in some cases, technicalities can be resonsible for a card that looks better getting the lesser grade, but I also have slabs where that does not appear to be the case and I'm stumped.
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 12-08-2018 at 05:15 AM. |
#4
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Just picked up this Mays which I think looks a lot better than the grade...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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M@tt McC@arthy I collect Hal Chase, Diamond Stars (PSA 5 or better), 1951 Bowman (Raw Ex or better), 1954 Topps (PSA 7 or better), 1956 Topps (Raw Ex or better), 3x5 Hall of Fame Autographs and autographed Perez Steele Postcards. You can see my collection by going to http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/BigSix. |
#5
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Quote:
Indeed. Not sure what earned that a 5, but it wasn’t the corners...here’s another Willie that fits into that category: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#6
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Wow! That 54 Mays is sweet. Nice pick up!!
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#7
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Speaking of the Say Hey Kid, I grabbed this Mays donning my favorite uniform (qualifier be damned!!) a while back at a substantial discount. Nothing but a hair O/C...
1973mays305.jpg
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#8
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Sweet card...one of my favorite Mays cards!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
M@tt McC@arthy I collect Hal Chase, Diamond Stars (PSA 5 or better), 1951 Bowman (Raw Ex or better), 1954 Topps (PSA 7 or better), 1956 Topps (Raw Ex or better), 3x5 Hall of Fame Autographs and autographed Perez Steele Postcards. You can see my collection by going to http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/BigSix. |
#9
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I thought I was getting there and thought I had a pretty good idea/understanding but then I started noticing cards/grades, anomalies, threads and pics here and elsewhere, and all was thrown out the window! The inconsistencies I seen/noted, like the 3 cards I posted above, made it almost impossible for me to even considered myself an amateur grader! Needless to say I gave up on PSA and I no longer consider them as a possible TPA if and when I choose to get my cards graded. I found SGC far more consistent, and also a tad meaner, if you will, with their grading standards, but now, reading how many forged sigs slipped past them, I think I am now done considering getting any of them to grade/encapsulate my cards.
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 12-08-2018 at 05:11 PM. |
#10
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Quote:
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 12-08-2018 at 10:02 PM. |
#11
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Quote:
Cards on the upper end can retain a lot of eye appeal and still be slightly OC, but the centering standards get a lot tougher in that territory. If a card has super sharp corners but got an 8 (OC) because it was 70/30 one way...is that really a deal breaker if the discount is steep enough? The same card could be a nice 6 or potentially even a 7 and would still be considered sharp. I guess with the OC qualifier in particular, it depends on your tolerances. I'm not a centering freak, but would agree beyond a certain point bad centering starts to destroy eye appeal. I'd rather have a centered 5 over an 8 (OC) that was 85/15. But I collect mostly PSA 5 and 6 range cards for "nice" vintage, so again at times centering is not a chief concern if it's 70/30 or better. I digress...at a high level I don't mind OC cards, but I dislike egregiously OC cards. Does that make sense? Nice '73 Mays...
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 12-08-2018 at 09:46 PM. |
#12
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Quote:
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#13
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I have looked at, inquired about other raw cards from other sellers but when I have looked at their feedback or don't hear anything back or see reverse scans that I have asked for, I quickly scratch them from my list. Doing that over the last couple years is why I am at 91% bid activity with my current preferred seller in GM cards. Their shipping fees can't be beat either, especially for us Canucks!
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 12-09-2018 at 09:15 AM. |
#14
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I just noticed these 2 cards from a FB seller. I know scans don't always show/tell the whole picture, but how did Roe receive a 6 and Schmitz only a 5?
It looks like Schmitz is deserving of the 5, maybe even higher, but the Roe, imo, looks like a 4, at best, to me.
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#15
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Nice cards, however Schmitz is clearly the nicer card from the front. On the surface, as said on the Forum, buy the card not the grade. Something we all do.
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My new found obsession the t206! |
#16
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I am not a 100% convinced that is the case based on what I have seen before, but it does make the most sense.
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#17
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I don’t believe there is. When a card is sent in for reholder, I believe it keeps the same cert #. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#18
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Agreed. With PSA I just look for 100% feedback, but for raw cards it helps to go to a trusted dealer. I’ve used Kit Young a lot in the past. His prices are reasonable and he negotiates on some eBay sales. With him I know if the card is advertised as “VG-EX” I’m going to at least get something in the ballpark. Not like with some other unknown sellers who sometimes don’t know what they are talking about. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#19
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That's unfortunate. I am sure the card, being in a newer flip would fool some into thinking the card is a true 6 and will always grade/be a 6 not knowing, if it were to be graded today with today's standards, that it mostly likely, at best, is a 3-4 now.
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#20
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There are a lot of things about TPG's which are unfortunate.
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#21
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Buy the card
To me this is a beautiful card regardless of its technical grade.
__________________
Successful transactions with members: Hammerin'Hank, ghostmarcelle, 53Browns, deepstep19, wolfdogg, robw1959, dealme https://www.collectorfocus.com/colle.../my-collection |
#22
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Here are a few that I feel look nicer than their technical grade.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#23
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Quote:
Gorgeous cards! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#24
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Quote:
I had that Mantle as a kid in the 1980’s. Mine had a big ugly crease through the lower left corner. I was totally in love with it regardless. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#25
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Quote:
My preference is to reholder anything of a decent value before selling.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. Last edited by pokerplyr80; 12-10-2018 at 07:17 PM. |
#26
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Here are a couple of Wille that I think present very well the grades given. Last edited by jb67; 12-11-2018 at 06:41 PM. |
#27
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Great cards everyone. Jesse - That Mantle is off the charts.
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#28
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That PSA 6 ‘57 Mick is near the top of the long list of cards I deeply regret selling to Jesse over the years! One of many reasons I recently resolved never to sell a card again.
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#29
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I'm sorry to hear that Matt, it's much easier to find a dead centered Mantle by waiting for you to upgrade than to search through 100s of Ebay and AH listings. I certainly understand your decision though.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#30
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[QUOTE=DeanH3;1834960]Great cards everyone. Jesse - That Mantle is off the charts.
DeanH3, I can't imagine there is a better looking PSA 1 of a 53 Mick than this. That Mick is beyond belief. |
#31
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[QUOTE=jb67;1835179]Thank you David. Amazing how much a little back damage will save you.
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#32
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I bought this in a 2 holder
Cracked out and resubmitted it.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#33
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Wow Adam, that's crazy. It jumped from a 2 to a 7? That's ridiculous.
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#34
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I remember that jump in grades, I just couldn't remember who posted it a couple years ago.
That one was an eye opener for me!
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#35
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Here's one I believe. Nicer looking than most 3's and many 4's, no back damage either.
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#36
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Quote:
I've posted this one a bunch too. Way undergraded, imo, but it worked out good for me as I got it at 3 prices. I've always said/believe SGC grades harsher than PSA. My Crandall card being one them that only graded out a 5.
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#37
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Interesting responses, thanks again all.
I'm becoming increasingly skeptical of PSA's grading consistency especially with mid-grade vintage. I looked at several recent examples of my '53 Topps Satchel Paige in the PSA Auction Prices Realized site last night. I know that grading when it comes down to technical brass tacks is more than just eye appeal alone, but still: My card is a PSA 5; I saw many 6's that didn't look as good, and many 5's that looked way worse. If you take into consideration the age of the slab / flip as well - then it gets even worse. I saw some older 5's that I doubt would be 4's today with the corners they had. Oy...
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#38
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And when we begin to look at cards graded in past years, or decades, things really go haywire. I focus primarily on Mantle, and I see PSA 8s and PSA 9s of his basic issue cards in old grades/slabs that would be lucky to merit 7s today. Just browse some of the "high grade" Registry sets or VCP, and what becomes clear as day is that some cards awarded a PSA 9 many years ago are simply total head scratchers. And as humans often do, PSA seems to have made the mistake of overcorrecting; now you can submit a lights-out 8 that blows away every 9 viewable on VCP past sales, and they will give you a sticky note pointing to some minor flaw as cause for the card not even getting a half point bump. So what we have in the market are some of today's cards in lower grade, destroying higher grade cards from yesteryear on both the eye appeal and even technical grade fronts. The upshot is it gets even more important to shop with our eyes and in effect police the flips. Last edited by MattyC; 12-14-2018 at 10:22 AM. |
#39
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Awesome Mays cards. The 63 hits the eye like a mint card!
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#40
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Quote:
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#41
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Quote:
Last edited by vintagebaseballcardguy; 12-14-2018 at 01:03 PM. |
#42
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Quote:
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#43
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Here are a few of my examples for the thread.
Last edited by KendallCat; 12-14-2018 at 08:53 PM. |
#44
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Last weeks pickup. Not sure what made it a 1 since there isn’t a pinhole but looks great to me
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#45
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I have one...here is a nice 61. Any reason why it's a 5 is beyond me.
Last edited by Sportscards1086; 01-11-2019 at 09:43 AM. |
#46
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Quote:
Agreed. It’s not centered outside of 6 range either. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#47
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PSA has gotten so inconsistent (or faulty QC) lately I've had to returned two eBay purchases because of "bad grades." A PSA 8 had two bent lower corners and edge damage and another was so out of focus that the faces weren't under the player's hats on a team card (neither of which was observable on the post). TPG claim they issue opinions but they have guidelines that should create a somewhat known standard. I think all collectors should refuse to keep cards that another collector/dealer got a "lucky" grade on; don't be the last one holding the 5 in an 8 holder.
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#48
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Will agree with you the inconsistency is rampant. That's why anymore I try to take the TPG's literally as an "opinion" when buying online. It's too frustrating to try to make sense anymore of vintage 6's that look better than some 7's, 5's that look better than some 6's - 5's that look way better than other 5.5's...and on and on and on. At the end of the day I take PSA's word that the card is authentic, and then beyond that all that matters is am I personally happy with the card for the price? It's too confusing to keep us with their nuances and discrepancies outside of that.
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 01-11-2019 at 11:13 AM. |
#49
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Not a bad 3...
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#50
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