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#1
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Is the Ty Cobb back still the scarcest T206 back?
Now I know some don't consider the Ty Cobb back to be from the T206 set, but for the sake of this thread lets say it is.
On T206 Resource, the Ty Cobb back is considered the #1 scarcest back in the T206 set. However, due to the most recent discovery of Ty Cobb backs the last couple of years, it increases the elusive back population to a total of 24 examples. Could the Old Mill Brown back or the Lenox Brown back now top the #1 spot? And since the Old Mill Brown back is a scrap, could the Lenox Brown be considered the #1 scarcest pack issued back? It's tough to track down the pop reports for SGC for particular backs, but I'm wondering if anyone has been keeping track of the total pop reports of the Old Mill Brown and Lenox Brown to see which back is truly the scarcest...at least in terms of pop report (which I know isn't always accurate).
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http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/schneids |
#2
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I believe Brown Old Mill might be rarer, but it’s close. I believe Brown Lenox is a not-too-distant 3rd. Of the 3, give me a cobb back!
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#3
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Hell yes.. I love me some cobb back..
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Jamie Looking for T206 Errors, Ghosts and Severe Miscuts |
#4
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Damn Jamie, great looking back! One day.....
So you won’t trade your Cobb back for one of my Brown Old Mills??!! Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 12-12-2018 at 07:53 PM. |
#5
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But is Cobb on the front of both cards in the proposed trade? I only want a Cobb back because Cobb is on the front. If I am paying mid-four to five or six figures for a card back, it better have a great player on the front.
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#6
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One of my closest friends just won the Cobb/Cobb in REA, I'm stoked to see it in person, hopefully within the next few weeks...Legendary card.
Jamie- amazing. PS- I've always loved the "R" is World, on the Cobb back. Last edited by MVSNYC; 12-12-2018 at 11:06 PM. |
#7
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So you've ruled out ever owning a Brown Old Mill?
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#8
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The estimates that I recall hearing were as follows:
18-20 Old Mill Brown 24 Cobb backs 25-30 Lenox Brown Old Mill is the most rare, but as the OP pointed out, they are scrap and were not distributed in packs. We don't know how Cobb backs were distributed. They may have been handed out as promotional items. It seems that they were not packed into Cobb tins, because they were produced in 1910. The tax stamp on Cobb tins indicated a date of 1912 as I recall, so the dates don't line up. I think that it was assumed that they were packed in the tins because some cards and a tin were found together in an old collection. So the Lenox Brown might be the most rare T206 distributed in packs of cigarettes. But the Lenox Brown is almost certainly a mistake, making the Broadleaf 460 the rarest T206 back that was intentionally produced and distributed. For whatever that's worth. |
#9
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Has anyone seen a Cobb tin? Can someone post a pic if they have one?
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#10
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I guess the blue Old Mill Ed Walsh is "persona non grata" in these type of discussions.
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#11
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Quote:
https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=21656 https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...ce?itemid=3463 Last edited by Pat R; 12-13-2018 at 05:10 AM. |
#12
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Thanks Pat. Wow. I don’t normally look at/for non-cars items, but seems that a Ty Cobb tin is quite the collectible.
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#13
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I have ruled out ever owning a Drum unless I can find one with one of the top players on it and paying through the nose. I have gone after the Cobb/Cobb and may again in the future. My t206 collection is done right now without any of the top 5 scarce backs. I'm not interested in buying them with a common player.
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#14
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#15
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http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...bb+back&page=9 TED Z T206 Reference . |
#16
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#17
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One of the excerpts from the Macon Weekly Telegraph (Feb 1910) states....
"TY COBB, JR. SENDS OUT CARD TO HIS ADMIRERS" The above News clipping....and the fact that Senator Richard Russell, who collected his tobacco cards in 1909-1910, and acquired a Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb card in his youth is sufficient evidence to me that this card was issued circa 1910. TED Z T206 Reference . |
#18
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either. I have found several ads like this one from Jan 1910 but none of them mention the Cobb card which seems odd. Ty Cobb Tobacco.jpg |
#19
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Vintage postcard of Factory #33 where the Ty Cobb Smoking Tobacco was manufactured.
TED Z T206 Reference . |
#20
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Quote:
https://www.storywoodmusic.com/ameri...ny-warehouses/ After the breakup of American Tobacco in 1911, the restructured company concentrated its tobacco manufacturing in Durham and Reidsville, N.C.; Louisville, Ky.; and Richmond, Va. The Durham facility had been built by the Duke family and included the former William T. Blackwell plant. The Reidsville plant was the former F. R. Penn Tobacco Company, which the American Tobacco Company had purchased shortly before the dissolution of the American Tobacco Trust in 1911. Charles A. Penn became a director of American Tobacco in 1911 Last edited by rats60; 12-14-2018 at 06:20 AM. |
#21
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Rarest T-206 Back
Actually the rarest T-206 back is the BLUE old mill back. Only 3 are known to exist. It's strange that no one except one responder noted that. Maybe this was due to the date of the initiating post. But no back collection will ever be complete without one! Happy collecting!
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#22
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No matter which one is the rarest, I'd take the Cobb back above all others any day!
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~20 SUCCESSFUL BST (1 trade) on Net54 |
#23
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Always looking for pre-war Memphis cards and memorabilia |
#24
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I would be happy to possess 1 of each. I make them available to view by all on this group. |
#25
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Quote:
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So the question is, what back is the rarest? It needs to be a T206. It needs to have been inserted into the packs. Scraps don't count because they were never inserted into the packs. Same thing with hand cut cards. They are scraps. But then we get to the "Blue Old Mill". They are all T206's. They have no sign of being hand cut and look to be cards that were inserted into packs. Nobody has an issue calling the Lenox Brown and Lenox Black, individual T206 subsets. Even the Southern League Brown Old Mills are a T206 subset but everyone is aware that they were all hand cut so they fall into the scrap category but are still a welcomed T206 subset. When the first "Blue Old Mill" was discovered and put up for auction, it was a 50/50 split that it was even real. Some thought maybe a real front was attached to a fake Blue back. Some thought it was treated with some sort of chemical that turned the black ink blue. I even wasn't sure about it. I had never seen it in person and never saw a clean scan with a closeup scan comparing it to a black ink Old Mill. I basically had to take the word of a few that saw it in person, the auction house, and the third party grader. Many were extremely skeptical because over a 100 years and this is the only one found. I totally understand. Then a couple years passed and a second one was discovered. The crazy thing was it was discovered by me, in my own collection. I wasn't looking for one. I was actually looking for a print defect on EPDG cards. But my collection is in alphabetical order so I was flipping past all the different backs until I got to a EPDG to see if it had the print defect. Nearing the end of my search, the next handful had an Old Mill back on top. It looked kinda different but it wasn't really jumping out at me. I pulled it out from the handful of cards and continued searching for EPDG's. When I was finally done with the EPDG search, I took another look at the Old Mill. I first compared it to another Old Mill and there was a difference in color. At the time, I was buying more Old Mill's than other backs. No real reason why, I just get hooked on a certain topic for a month or two and then move on to something else. So I put the odd looking Old Mill into a pile of about 30 other Old Mill's and asked non baseball card people to look at the backs and remove any that seem different in any way. I even had my own mother do this. They all pulled out the same card from the group of cards. I asked my mother why she chose that one. She said it looks more blue than any of the other cards. So at this point, I was a little more convinced that I had a Blue Old Mill but still was very far from 100 percent sure. Then I decided to put it under the USB microscope which I have only used for coins. This was the first time I ever put a baseball card under the microscope. What I saw, made me 100 percent sure I had a Blue Old Mill. I was so sure, that I decided to make a YouTube video showing everything and comparing it with a regular Black Ink Old Mill. I swapped the sides they were on. I did everything I possibly could in the video to show there was no funny business going on. Even after the video was made and uploaded, I originally thought it was Polar Bear Blue Ink but a few days later, comparing it to other cards from the same timeframe, it actually turned out to be a perfect match for Piedmont Blue. Piedmont's come in a few shades of blue but when comparing it to Piedmonts that would have been printed during the same time as the Blue Old Mill, I found a perfect match. So now I knew they were both from Print Group One and printed with Piedmont Blue Ink. I didn't need anymore convincing for myself. I felt that I took the research as far as I could and shared it to the world. Not too long after uploading my YouTube video, a third one surfaced, which is currently in the REA auction. The pictures are much better than when the Walsh was auctioned. I could at least tell it was the same shade of blue that mine was. It would be interesting if one day at a future National show, we could get all three of these cards together. And who knows, maybe by that time a fourth one could show up. I still haven't looked at any of mine and there's between 50 and 60 Old Mill's from Print Group One. So number 4 could just be sitting in a box waiting for me to search for them and closely check each one. So back to the original question. What's the rarest T206 back. At this point in time, I would have to say the Blue Old Mill. But that's just my opinion. YouTube Video Link: https://youtu.be/p5qUHZQLeFw
__________________
Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 Last edited by Ronnie73; 12-01-2020 at 01:27 AM. |
#26
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#27
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#28
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I remember seeing the first Blue Old Mill at the 2011 National in Chicago. Man what a great National that was!! There was always a lot of skepticism in the beginning and even SGC was cautious about grading it. If I am not mistaken there may be pics of that card floating around somewhere in an SGC holder now. I took the pics originally for the board but no longer have them available or I would post them. I 100% agreed with the color and at the time it seemed impossible but I got lucky and got to take a seat at the table. Used a 10x Loupe and both a black light and led on it to see if there was any anomaly that may have been left by a chemical or uneven coloring like a color has been passed over again. Anything that could show proof it was not genuine. I found nothing questionable and even the cut showed factory edges common on the T cards from the time period. That leads to speculation that at least ONE full sheet was printed and distributed. I am glad that it was verified and slabbed but having two more come to light makes me look a tiny less crazy now. Lol.
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Andrew Member since 2009 |
#29
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Quote:
__________________
Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
#30
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Here are the Pics you took. Blue Old Mill.jpg Blue Old Mill Back.jpg Last edited by Pat R; 12-05-2020 at 07:14 AM. |
#31
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back scan when I got the front scan I was looking for print flaws to compare to other Elbefelds I didn't find any identifiable flaws but I did notice the registration similarities to your Powell. |
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