OT but front page worthy Jordan card ebay

[aconte]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I grew up collecting both modern and vintage. The "bubble pop" myth has been bandied about since the mid-80s.

+1 I laughed when I read that comment. I also collect both modern
and vintage. Got Ruth, Cochrane, Simmons, etc. Modern have Griffey, Trout, Acuna etc......

I always wonder if the reason some vintage collectors say modern is a bubble or
junk is because they worry as years go by less and less collectors want some
of the stuff in their arsenal. It happened with stamps.

did someone say Acuna!



Edited: Not to upset too many on a pre-war board but here is a Cobb I picked up recently. Was broken up from an REA lot.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My newest card is the unsigned one.

[Neal]

That is a tough card Peter - better not get stuck with it when the bubble pops!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Neal

That is a tough card Peter - better not get stuck with it when the bubble pops!

If he starts hitting again like he is capable of, I'll be just fine.

[ctownboy]

The problem I see with the modern stuff, especially the manufactured rarity of some cards, is that the people collecting it today and spending big bucks on it probably weren't around and collecting in the early 1990's. Buying shiny stuff back then (while looking for chase and insert cards) was an obsession with some people and the big companies took advantage of it and overproduces the product. When the air went out of the bubble MANY people were left holding either worthless cards or cards that were valued WAAAAY less than what people had paid for them. This upset a LOT of people and those people left the hobby because of it. Also, some of the big companies went out of business.

Meanwhile, the older cards may have hit some bumps along the way but they continued to hold their value pretty well and the people collecting them didn't get burned and lose interest in collecting them.

It seems the new shiny stuff hasn't had it's bubble burst yet and the people collecting it hasn't felt the sting of holding cards with vanishing profits.....

David

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

The problem I see with the modern stuff, especially the manufactured rarity of some cards, is that the people collecting it today and spending big bucks on it probably weren't around and collecting in the early 1990's. Buying shiny stuff back then (while looking for chase and insert cards) was an obsession with some people and the big companies took advantage of it and overproduces the product. When the air went out of the bubble MANY people were left holding either worthless cards or cards that were valued WAAAAY less than what people had paid for them. This upset a LOT of people and those people left the hobby because of it. Also, some of the big companies went out of business.

Meanwhile, the older cards may have hit some bumps along the way but they continued to hold their value pretty well and the people collecting them didn't get burned and lose interest in collecting them.

It seems the new shiny stuff hasn't had it's bubble burst yet and the people collecting it hasn't felt the sting of holding cards with vanishing profits.....

David

Different type of hobby. Most modern collectors are into short-term flipping rather than long-term collecting.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Different type of hobby. Most modern collectors are into short-term flipping rather than long-term collecting.

That can't be good for long term valuations?

It's like noone wants to get stuck with the hot potato?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Different type of hobby. Most modern collectors are into short-term flipping rather than long-term collecting.

Not really. The buyer of this card is most likely a Jordan collector who will hold this card long term. Most modern collectors are no different from vintage, prewar or post war collectors, they just like to collect different players. Many are outside of the United States and are drawn to basketball cards and players such as Michael Jordan and LeBron James instead of Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle.

The people who you are thinking of are not collectors, they are called prospectors. They buy rookie cards of minor league players hoping to flip them when they reach the majors or get hot for profit. It is not like they don't exist in vintage circles, just in another form. Many big REA or Heritage Auctions you see cards sell that are soon relisted on EBay or with PWCC in hopes of flipping for a profit.

[ejharrington]

My problem with modern cards, which for me is 1988 forward, is that I like to collect players to completion and that is impossible now since they make so many of them. I love Ichiro and was thinking of collecting his cards until I saw there were over 10000 cards of him. The modern cards are great looking and innovative but I’m glad I collected before they started making so many of them.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

More so than with the Jordans, unless unbeknownst to me few Drums were produced for the express purpose of creating a collectible in short supply. To me, limited production modern insert cards are all artificially scarce.

This is where I have been for all my adult years of collecting. I prefer something that is rare because it's evolved that way over time, and we really don't know how many there are. Bottom line for me is I cannot go into the local 7-11 and hope to find anything I'd enjoy.
Production limits to create scarcity don't do anything for me. Bradford Exchange plates come to mind from back when I got back into collecting. It didn't make sense to me then, and it still doesn't today.

Originally Posted by Neal

Exactly
I collect both
Just recently jumped into the modern market - which is bigger than most realize

I have to buy into this. While there are not a lot of card shows around here, whenever I go to one I am always amazed at how much “shiny stuff” there is, and how little vintage there is. And it’s not just kids buying the shiny stuff. I really don’t even look at those tables, but those guys must be moving product because they are always back.
As my wife says to me when we disagree on something we might discuss, “It’s not right or wrong, it’s just different.”

Originally Posted by aconte

did someone say Acuna!

Here’s another reason I’m not much into modern stuff. You cannot read their signatures. I’ve posted about this pet peeve many of mine times in the Autograph section of this forum.
Again, it’s not right or wrong, it’s just different.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I find it humorous how bunches of modern collectors are coming here on a strictly vintage site trying to tell us what we should think. Kind of like how people go on missionary trip to the Middle East trying to sell Christianity it usually does not end well For them!

I had to add this. It just made me laugh!!! Well done Pete.

[Snapolit1]

Enough whining from modern collectors. Put the hanky down and stop crying. I'll put the violin away.

Collect what you like. And don't give a sh*t what others think. Collect humels with little girls twirling umbrellas if that's your thing.

Problem with modern cards is old farts like me can name 250 players since 1970 that "smart guys" were hoarding and eventually their wives had to beg someone to come to the house to throw them away. You know which players I'm talking about. Yeah, virtually every can't miss guy in the modern era. Can you catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, there are a few Trout cards worth big bucks. Usually because they are some color variation or something else. But many many many people have spent big bucks hoarding modern cards that proved worthless. Hell, some of them have even written books about them.

Saying modern cards are a sound investment is like saying penny stocks are a good investment. Sure 1 our of every 10,000 turn into a great investment. And the guy who cleans up will make a big stink about it forever. I'll stick with Babe Ruth. You can have Acuna.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Enough whining from modern collectors. Put the hanky down and stop crying. I'll put the violin away.

Collect what you like. And don't give a sh*t what others think. Collect humels with little girls twirling umbrellas if that's your thing.

Problem with modern cards is old farts like me can name 250 players since 1970 that "smart guys" were hoarding and eventually their wives had to beg someone to come to the house to throw them away. You know which players I'm talking about. Yeah, virtually every can't miss guy in the modern era. Can you catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, there are a few Trout cards worth big bucks. Usually because they are some color variation or something else. But many many many people have spent big bucks hoarding modern cards that proved worthless. Hell, some of them have even written books about them.

If your point is that utility / enjoyment from sports cards comes only from them eventually panning out as investments, then it would seem valid. Certainly for someone spending well into the six-figure range for a card produced in the 1990's, that would seem to be a concern. But I would argue (not that I do much of this myself..) that some collectors can get the same enjoyement out of their worthless junk-era cards as I do my vintage material - if they have a connection to the player or some type of nostalgia related to the cards comes into play. If it's something besides the cold hard cash aspect of cards as a potential - indeed as evidenced by the types of discussion that goes on in these forums - it's that the cards themselves are intrensically enjoyable and worth collecting. I mean besides that what is the value of a cool card that you want to show off besides the fact that it provides a dopamine hit?

We all have different or at least varied if similar reasons for why we collect. I think things can be discussed and perceived as outlandish without getting down to a fight about respect between types of collectors and who collects what. Personally I could care less about 99% of cards that are made today, but I don't disparage those who do.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Problem with modern cards is old farts like me can name 250 players since 1970 that "smart guys" were hoarding and eventually their wives had to beg someone to come to the house to throw them away. You know which players I'm talking about. Yeah, virtually every can't miss guy in the modern era. Can you catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, there are a few Trout cards worth big bucks. Usually because they are some color variation or something else. But many many many people have spent big bucks hoarding modern cards that proved worthless. Hell, some of them have even written books about them.

Saying modern cards are a sound investment is like saying penny stocks are a good investment. Sure 1 our of every 10,000 turn into a great investment. And the guy who cleans up will make a big stink about it forever. I'll stick with Babe Ruth. You can have Acuna.

While I agree with your assessment of throwing a dart and trying to hit a bullseye with some rookie phenom, that's not at all the case with the card referenced throughout most of this thread. Jordan's legacy is right there with Ruth and Cobb.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

While I agree with your assessment of throwing a dart and trying to hit a bullseye with some rookie phenom, that's not at all the case with the card referenced throughout most of this thread. Jordan's legacy is right there with Ruth and Cobb.

I agree with you, but there are 110 year old Cobb cards that are even more rare than this Jordan, and they don’t go for nearly this much. It’s a weird phenomenon. If the guy has the money, and wants to spend it on this, then God bless him. But there is no rhyme or reason to the value of cards. Supply and DEMAND is the easy answer.

The card pictured on my avatar (which I no longer own) is a 1908 Cobb with a known population of 2! It predates all of his popular cards and is an image that is unique to this card. I paid $17,000 for it at auction. So we have a combination of:
1. Legendary player
2. Extreme rarity
3. Early and unique image

And yet it sells for a small fraction of what this modern Jordan sells for. Again, I’m not going to say that one is better than the other, but in my estimation, DEMAND is the only explanation. Why there wouldn’t be more demand for aCobb like this is insane to me, and a subject for another thread. To each their own.

[Snapolit1]

Yes Michael Jordan is in the pantheon. I would never question the staying power of his card or his career. What I would question is anyone hoarding Jacob DeGrom or Aaron Judge cards. Too many. Too many variations. Too much hoarding. Old cards like old comic books are a valuable thing because few people ever considered to save them, much less preserve them in excellent condition. Most modern cards are valuable because of a gimmick. I bought a Topps David Wright farewell auto card for like $199. It was a nice card. There were versions that were much more because they were blue or red or purple or some other color. People paying real money to get a different color in the background. Whatever floats your boat. Seems a little silly to me. Is one color worth more than others? Lol.

[Neal]

Markets are changing imo. Not a lot of kids (like we all were) are collecting. There are so many other choices for kids nowadays. My teenage son, who is a pretty good player, has zero interest in my vintage stuff. Or modern for that matter. He knows the players of yesteryear pretty well, as he is a vigorous reader of the books I read as a kid. Many of his peers do not know about George Brett. Or Walter Johnson. They don't collect cards either, and not sure they know much about the history of our sport other than Trout or recent award winners.

They all know about Ruth. A handful know about Cobb. Christy Mathewson who?

Again, most kids do not collect. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but it does make you wonder where the market will be in 20 years.

[MattyC]

Good thing those of us who enjoy collecting such cards don’t care what Snapolit on the internet thinks.

[Throttlesteer]

Think of the prewar cards with less than 10 known copies you can buy for $750k.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

People paying real money to get a different color in the background. Whatever floats your boat. Seems a little silly to me. Is one color worth more than others? Lol.

Transfer that thought to T206 collecting.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Enough whining from modern collectors. Put the hanky down and stop crying. I'll put the violin away.

Collect what you like. And don't give a sh*t what others think. Collect humels with little girls twirling umbrellas if that's your thing.

Problem with modern cards is old farts like me can name 250 players since 1970 that "smart guys" were hoarding and eventually their wives had to beg someone to come to the house to throw them away. You know which players I'm talking about. Yeah, virtually every can't miss guy in the modern era. Can you catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, there are a few Trout cards worth big bucks. Usually because they are some color variation or something else. But many many many people have spent big bucks hoarding modern cards that proved worthless. Hell, some of them have even written books about them.

Saying modern cards are a sound investment is like saying penny stocks are a good investment. Sure 1 our of every 10,000 turn into a great investment. And the guy who cleans up will make a big stink about it forever. I'll stick with Babe Ruth. You can have Acuna.

This sums it up in a nutshell. While everyone was busy buying Billy Ripken FF cards and then all the 80's 90's complete garbage, I was busy buying vintage. How did I do compared to the minions? You can not give that stuff away. You have to pay to landfill it all. Acuna may be good, but odds are he flames out. Babe ruth we know about. He WAS good!

[aconte]

Bob,

I agree on the signatures being ineligible today. I bought this card more
for the image but I guess that could be considered dumb when I could have
just found one of a thousand others at a fraction of the price.

Most of my vintage autos are from players of the 1950s that I got at shows
or through the mail. Their sigs are so much better!

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by aconte

+1 I laughed when I read that comment. I also collect both modern

and vintage. Got Ruth, Cochrane, Simmons, etc. Modern have Griffey, Trout, Acuna etc......



I always wonder if the reason some vintage collectors say modern is a bubble or

junk is because they worry as years go by less and less collectors want some

of the stuff in their arsenal. It happened with stamps.



did someone say Acuna!







Edited: Not to upset too many on a pre-war board but here is a Cobb I picked up recently. Was broken up from an REA lot.

Omg Ty Cob!!!! Never knew of that card. Amazing.

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