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#1
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Or, through the design of many variations, they are creating a layered and engaging collecting endeavor— for those who like to chase and assemble sets (i.e., Topps Heritage).
To try and say collecting ad backs or color runs of PreWar is somehow intrinsically superior to doing the same with modern is flat out wrong. Last edited by MattyC; 02-17-2019 at 12:45 PM. |
#2
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I collect mostly vintage, but I grab new stuff here and there. The NBA doesn't have 150 years of history. It started in the 1940's, and there were only three major sets issued before 1969. What early rare cards is the basketball collector supposed to chase once they have completed the Big 3? For a person with deep pockets, where do you go? The 1970's? Easy to complete. 1980's? If you jumped in early, those aren't that difficult either. These rare inserts are the only truly tough cards out there. The investor here is thinking that extreme rarity combined with a sure thing like Michael Jordan is this generation's T206 Wagner... except that 320,000,000 Americans know who Michael Jordan is, and probably less than 5 million know who Honus Wagner is.
Not my cup of tea, but if someone has the cash and they want to sink that kind of money into the hobby, by all means do it!
__________________
Actively bouncing aimlessly from set to set trying to accomplish something, but getting nowhere |
#3
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Yes, modern brands are manufacturing rarity for the sole purpose of creating “a layered and engaging experience” for the collecting purists like yourself who simply value the cards with no regard to value. Do you honestly believe that? I’m not even saying it’s better or worse than vintage back runs it color runs. Those are your words. But let’s call it what it is. The marketing objectives of 1930s Goudey and 2019 Topps are very different. |
#4
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People can collect whatever they want. Years ago I had friends loading up on limited edition Thomas Kincaid paintings. Made them happy. Today they ain't worth diddly squat. Does that make them stupid? No. If they spent their kids college money on them believing it was a good investment, does that make them smart. Uh, no.
I enjoy buying modern cards. Two or three times a year I buy a big ass box of a new release and enjoying going through them. Usually at the card store there are bunch of "kids" (i.e., guys in their 30s) ripping open boxes and flinging cards into a garbage can trying to find one or two special added relic or autograph cards. Don't strike me as "collectors" as the term is used on this board. Last edited by Snapolit1; 02-17-2019 at 03:00 PM. |
#5
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-17-2019 at 03:03 PM. |
#6
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The lottery mentality started in the late 80s early 90s and now it has been taken to the nth degree just like the kids of today. The hobby is now a hobby for adults for the most part! |
#7
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-17-2019 at 03:54 PM. |
#8
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Sure, Topps produces way too many different sets (actually they have to in their contract with the MLB), but your childhood was a lot different than the kids growing up today. One set of 600 cards is boring, and a sure way to kill off the collecting vibe. But they do make sets like Opening Day for just this reason; inexpensive ways for kids to collect. In the past year, I've donated 10,000 cards (sports/nonsports) from the 80s to 2018 to my wife's school kids, and they're thrilled with them. They're from a rural area and probably can't afford them, and it's a good way for me to clean out the clutter from the one or two collections I buy a year.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#9
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-17-2019 at 04:22 PM. |
#10
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I agree 100% with this. Personally, I loved collecting when it was simpler. But in the past year I bought a couple boxes of Topps Heritage, and it was awesome. I thought the cards were beautiful. I didn’t get any “hits” though, and that wasn’t my primary motivation. But my belief is that Topps’ bullseye consumer is not me, the passive collector, but the dudes Steve describes who are breaking cases to try to hit it big. The sponsored case breaks at the National are not a celebration of set building.
Last edited by mechanicalman; 02-17-2019 at 03:19 PM. |
#11
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There are a lot of neat and affordable products in the $40-50 range that feature several retired players. These sets usually deliver close to a set, an autograph and/or a relic card per, parallels, etc. While base set collecting is clearly dying, I've seen an uptick in player collecting, prospecting, insert set collecting, etc. There are several new ways to collect and that's awesome. I'm also witnessing a lot of diversity in these collectors. Several are STARTING as late teenagers and young professionals. I've personally witnessed an uptick in female buyers and people of color. These folks have an appreciation for the past and could definitely dabble in vintage in the future.
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#12
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Another difference, although this is pure speculation, is that the new rarities are more likely to depreciate in value than the old rarities. There are a zillion different Jordan cards. How meaningful will these green cards be 50 years from now? Not so many Lajoies, although the old cards could take a hit as well once the baby boomers move on.
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#13
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Your posts above are both presumptuous and reductive; Topps certainly knows that while indeed there are buyers out there looking for an eBay flip, there are also collectors of all ages who do enjoy hunting for myriad variations— knowing full well that the Heritage Throwback semi-star they pulled yet desired for their set won’t be worth a dime down the line. Point being that it is highly presumptuous to claim you know why everyone is buying (for a “Lotto” ticket). The set design in that respect is layered and designed to engage the collector beyond the base cards; much in the same way some video games are layered to engage the player in multiple tasks, for example. What is the endgame here? You want everyone to collect Gehringer or mid grade t206’s or whatever you collect? Sorry, but people are going to have different tastes no matter how hard some try and slight what they like. And — gasp— some of us will take home an e90-1 Shoeless and a Bryce Harper or Kershaw. Last time I checked, all the cards in the hobby weren’t pitted against each other in some absurd battle; the collectors of them shouldn’t be either. Last edited by MattyC; 02-17-2019 at 05:05 PM. |
#14
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I don’t have one. I don’t give two sh*ts what other people collect. In fact, I would MUCH rather the big money go into modern than vintage. I’d rather not compete with the well-heeled fellow who has $600k to spend on a Purple Raspberry Platinum Refractor Jordan. My argument is that the comparison between the manufactured scarcity of Goudey and 2019 Topps has different underlying drivers. Yes, both efforts are about selling more cards, but one was about driving kids to try complete a set (in vein); the other is about selling the promise of an instantly valuable “hit.” I’m saying this based on factual observations without assigning any value judgement. I’m not criticizing Topps or their consumers. And yet your precious sensibilities are still offended. We get it, Matty. You love your Aaron Judges and Gregg Jeffries just as much as your mid-grade centered Mantles. The purity of collecting is heavenly. It warms the heart. You feel like you must be the holy defender of all things modern. But if you believe that Topps’ manufactured scarcity is only driven by a desire to make set collecting more “layered” and “fun,” you’re believing in a fiction on par with a Rambo sequel. |
#15
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From Peck & Snyder to Old Judge to ATC to Goudey and Topps/Bowman the common denominator is marketing and money.. Otherwise, why bother? Modern is growing and pre-war is shrinking. Collectors should be hoping that the modern hobby continues to surge.
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#16
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i am mostly a vintage collector, but I still don't get the stance on here that vintage manufactured rarities were somehow pure and good and honest, while the same thing in the modern hobby is horrible.
Modern collectors know what the deal is in that the chances are extremely slim of hitting a big money chase card. Collectors 80-90 years ago did not realize they were getting scammed into continually buying product in a near futile attempt to complete the set.
__________________
Flawless BST transactions with Wondo, Marslife, arcadekrazy, Moonlight Graham, Arazi4442, wrestlingcardking and Justus. |
#17
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Absolutely correct. The 1933 Goudey set is a prime example of a gum manufacturer scamming their customers. At least modern companies give odds! Last edited by Orioles1954; 02-17-2019 at 05:57 PM. |
#18
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The problem with this site is some folks try to make statements and other dudes read into them and assign value judgements to them. I don’t remember anyone arguing that one was good and honest and one was horrible. My personal argument was that they were motivated by different underlying dynamics, and therefore, not directly comparable. |
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