PSA president just blew my mind

[sflayank]

Finally responded to the inquiry as to why PSA will not label different size Dixie lids, the 2 contest dates on Red man, the black and red letters journal americans, the 180 and 200 reverse saladas different color armour coins etc etc etc
To me this response is "insane"
It has been PSA's long standing policy not to label variations that have no significant difference in value"

Any collector knows there is significant difference in values and furthermore that would be determined by the pop and the collectors
The set registry is the bread and butter of PSA and yet they dont want master sets of these issues
Furthermore they already label 100s of variations that have no different value

As for the 2nd issue grading uncatalogued cards from sets that have incomplete checklists he has no answer
So if there are 10 wilson meats listed and you have 15 different..they'll grade the 10 but not the other 5

BIZZARO WORLD

MAYBE IF HE RECEIVES A 1000 EMAILS FROM COLLECTORS HE'LL CHANGE HIS MIND
SSLOAN@collectors.com

[Leon]

Maybe he isn't a collector?

[glynparson]

Steve is a nice thoughtful guy and I do think he would be willing to alter this position if he gets enough feedback. I agree they surely want more submissions and more registry traffic and I think this would help in those areas. NExt time I see him I will be sure to let him know that I agree with everything you said about the variations. I also feel they could label more uncatalogued stuff than they do but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that.

[sflayank]

That would be helpful on variations
Uncatalogued stuff is one thing but incomplete checklists is another
Since there will no longer be bible updates
Basically hes saying if there are 20 cards in a set but only 15 are listed the other 5 dont count..since Bob lemkes passing theres no way to update since they have noone working there with the knowledge

[AddieJoss]

I’ve asked why they won’t breakdown t205 back on labels. They there is no difference in value. Which is inaccurate as well. It can be their honest answer but was their answer.

Cory Weiser

[Leon]

Originally Posted by AddieJoss

I’ve asked why they won’t breakdown t205 back on labels. They there is no difference in value. Which is inaccurate as well. It can be their honest answer but was their answer.

Cory Weiser

If anyone at PSA said that, or anywhere for that matter, then it proves they don't collect the series. Piedmont, Hindu, Drum all the same value? Ignorance is bliss.

[puckpaul]

at least they grade them. they haven't been grading the M101 sporting news premiums, which i think is a big factor in the low interest in them (see the prices in the Heritage auction...ridiculously cheap for their beauty and rarity and the details on the back of the players, a true rarity before the Goudeys 30+ years later). i know, they are large sized and rare, so i get that it's a low priority....anyway...

[ALBB]

The DelFonics - Didn't I blow your mind this time...

pretty good song

[bobbyw8469]

Didn't they grade a Nolan Ryan newspaper clipping one time?

[glchen]

Larry, I don't think what PSA's president told you was quite what has been PSA's long standing policy. I've also tried to get a lot of uncatalogued cards graded, and what customer support at PSA has always told me is that if the card is not is not some standard catalog (e.g, Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards), then PSA will not grade it. So the process has always been, first get your card catalogued (which won't be easy anymore since the Standard Catalog is going out of business), then come back to PSA to show that the card is now catalogued, and then they will grade it. This has worked for me before for some W590 cards that I was trying to grade.

Regarding variations, I would think that first the variation has to be known in some catalog like the above, and then you would need to prove the difference in value among the variations like PSA has said. Even then, they may decide not to grade it. It's up to them. This is why I use all three TPG's PSA, SGC and Beckett. The cards that PSA doesn't grade, I sent to SGC (e.g., Real Photo Postcards). The cards that PSA and SGC don't grade, then I send to Beckett (e.g., notepads).

BTW, regarding newspaper clippings, I think all 3 TPG's grade these (e.g., 1927 Rinkeydink stamps)

[sflayank]

You're right
I know it's not their long standing policy
He made that up on the fly
They grade and label dozens of variations that have no extra value and they grade many items not in the bible

[Copa7]

Originally Posted by sflayank

You're right
I know it's not their long standing policy
He made that up on the fly
They grade and label dozens of variations that have no extra value and they grade many items not in the bible

Compacentcy is the road to ruin. To me, PSA is satisfied with their current business and dies not see itself as an innovator or educator in the hobby.

The true work by the Dr. Beckett's and Lemkes and others is what led to discovery and expanding the knowledge.

I was part of a museum archive that proposed sharing its data base , which PSA rejected. A large part of a collection community subsequently rejected PSA.

It's one of the reasons they aren't welcome in Europe and Asia.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by glchen

Larry, I don't think what PSA's president told you was quite what has been PSA's long standing policy. I've also tried to get a lot of uncatalogued cards graded, and what customer support at PSA has always told me is that if the card is not is not some standard catalog (e.g, Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards), then PSA will not grade it. So the process has always been, first get your card catalogued (which won't be easy anymore since the Standard Catalog is going out of business),

Are we sure the Standard Catalog is going out of business? There is a huge difference between Chapter 11 bankruptcy and not staying in business. If F&W is able to re-org in bankruptcy court, then we may see new versions thereof. In other words, has this been announced publicly yet?

Regards
Rich

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by ALBB

The DelFonics - Didn't I blow your mind this time...

pretty good song

One of the first major Gamble/Huff, etc hits. A wonderful time in R&B music

Another Philly hit from about the same time and EVEN on theme for this board

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm-KijvGT0M

[ALBB]

Oh..I thought out of Chicago way ??

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Are we sure the Standard Catalog is going out of business? There is a huge difference between Chapter 11 bankruptcy and not staying in business. If F&W is able to re-org in bankruptcy court, then we may see new versions thereof. In other words, has this been announced publicly yet?

Regards
Rich

And bankruptcy often involves selling your company, or the working parts, to others.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by ALBB

Oh..I thought out of Chicago way ??

On rare occasions, I get one correct

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Delfonics

I bet you are thinking of either the Mighty Dells or the Impressions

Rich

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Steve is a nice thoughtful guy and I do think he would be willing to alter this position if he gets enough feedback. I agree they surely want more submissions and more registry traffic and I think this would help in those areas. Next time I see him I will be sure to let him know that I agree with everything you said about the variations. I also feel they could label more uncatalogued stuff than they do but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that.

The people who get paid for their opinions do not care about subtle details like cards that are different from other cards, they care only about making money. So, with that in mind, they might care about adding variations and updating out of date catalogs if they thought they could make money doing it.

If they cared about the hobby itself, they would have taken over the Standard Catalog, or started one of their own that was valid, instead of ignoring the obvious issues with their stands on variations and uncatalogued issues.

But I could be completely wrong, they might actually care, and I might actually be the Easter Bunny.

Doug

[hcv123]

How do they arbitrarily define what a "catalog" is? In todays electronic world the trading card database is as much a "catalog" as any other although it does not list values - which shouldn't matter as PSA has their SMR! The inconsistency has been rampant in numerous ways. Yet, they continue to be the 800lb gorilla largely due to the registry and large barriers to entry. I too have tried to have a number of items added only to face the same frustration that has been shared in this thread.

As an aside, I like Beckett's grading model the best with the 4 subgrades and then the averaged final grade - it allows collectors to prioritize elements of condition subjectively important to them.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

One of the first major Gamble/Huff, etc hits. A wonderful time in R&B music.

You probably mean era and genre, but all of the Delfonics hit songs were produced and co-written by Thom Bell.

[Rich Klein]

Yeah I do, thanks for the correction. Thom Bell is as much of the Philly sound as Gamble/Huff.

Rich

[ALBB]

OK, Im thinking of the Chi-Lites...they were out of CHI

[AddieJoss]

Originally Posted by Leon

If anyone at PSA said that, or anywhere for that matter, then it proves they don't collect the series. Piedmont, Hindu, Drum all the same value? Ignorance is bliss.

Leon, I made a valiant effort with no success. It’s not accurate, but see no other reason they won’t label T205s like T206s with the backs, and that is the bologna reason they gave me multiple times.

Cory Weiser

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by hcv123

As an aside, I like Beckett's grading model the best with the 4 subgrades and then the averaged final grade

This is not true. The final grades are not averaged, except at the very top. A Gem Mint otherwise card with a pinhole would not get a NM 7, it would get a 1-2 from Beckett. Their grade cannot be any more than 2 grades higher than the lowest subgrade, and then for only specific subgrades. Max grade is 1 higher for other subgrades.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by swarmee

This is not true. The final grades are not averaged, except at the very top. A Gem Mint otherwise card with a pinhole would not get a NM 7, it would get a 1-2 from Beckett. Their grade cannot be any more than 2 grades higher than the lowest subgrade, and then for only specific subgrades. Max grade is 1 higher for other subgrades.

Thank you for the clarification

[BleedinBlue]

Originally Posted by AddieJoss

Leon, I made a valiant effort with no success. It’s not accurate, but see no other reason they won’t label T205s like T206s with the backs, and that is the bologna reason they gave me multiple times.

Cory Weiser

Bobby fought the same battle for me on T203 backs a year ago. PSA would not recognize the Winner Back on the label and instead listed the cards as Mayo’s. There is a clear difference in value but so be it. Should I ever choose to sell a scan of the back clearly shows the brand. But it would be nice if the pop reports reflected the scarcity of the backs.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

Bobby fought the same battle for me on T203 backs a year ago. PSA would not recognize the Winner Back on the label and instead listed the cards as Mayo’s. There is a clear difference in value but so be it. Should I ever choose to sell a scan of the back clearly shows the brand. But it would be nice if the pop reports reflected the scarcity of the backs.

PSA flat out doesn't care. For cards they mislabel (I've done it numerous times on Milton Bradley's mislabeled as Topps), I state what they REALLY are. True collectors will bid on the card and not the label. At least that is what I tell myself.