OMG Blowout list of suspected trimmed modern cards

[calvindog]

Interesting that the only grading company which appears to have some evidence of crooked graders is Beckett.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Interesting that the only grading company which appears to have some evidence of crooked graders is Beckett.

The BGS 10 (how the bleep can a card or subgrade be better than gem mint) and the Black Label thing certainly create a huge potential for BS.

[oldjudge]

Why is anyone surprised by this? If a card is available in a 9 and the bump from a 9 to a 10 is many multiples I would be shocked if this didn’t happen. The idiots paying the multiples for a barely discernible change are fueling this. They are getting what they should expect. It doesn’t make it right, but it is none-the-less inevitable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Why is anyone surprised by this? If a card is available in a 9 and the bump from a 9 to a 10 is many multiples I would be shocked if this didn’t happen. The idiots paying the multiples for a barely discernible change are fueling this. They are getting what they should expect. It doesn’t make it right, but it is none-the-less inevitable.

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

I don't collect many modern cards but one I follow is the 89 ud Griffey. A card with 2 9.5 sub grades and 2 10s (gem mt vs pristine) is still a 9.5 worth around 500 bucks. Upgrade one of those 9.5s to a 10 and the card is now a 10, worth about 3500. 4 10s is a black label, and now the card is 10-20k probably, I'd have to look it up. I couldn't even tell you the difference in card characteristics of gem mt vs pristine, other than the obvious, almost perfect vs perfect.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't collect many modern cards but one I follow is the 89 ud Griffey. A card with 2 9.5 sub grades and 2 10s (gem mt vs pristine) is still a 9.5 worth around 500 bucks. Upgrade one of those 9.5s to a 10 and the card is now a 10, worth about 3500. 4 10s is a black label, and now the card is 10-20k probably, I'd have to look it up. I couldn't even tell you the difference in card characteristics of gem mt vs pristine, other than the obvious, almost perfect vs perfect.

I am highly skeptical cards above a 9.5 (or I should say with subs above a 9.5) would consistently regrade if resubmitted raw. Maybe it's not purely arbitrary (or corrupt) but hard to believe it's objective and reproducible. I can't even make sense of some of the subs on 9.5 and lower cards, particularly centering on some Star BKB.

[sportscardtheory]

I have about 300 cards graded by PSA and BGS, but it's pretty obvious with this massive TPG scandal that the only way cards should be graded is with technology. There needs to be a system in place that if you ran a card through said system, the same said card would grade the same 100 times out of 100. Humans simply can not be trusted to be subjective and honest. Human-based TPGs should go the way of the Dodo bird. They're, inconsistent, unreliable, untrustworthy and not subjective.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am highly skeptical cards above a 9.5 (or I should say with subs above a 9.5) would consistently regrade if resubmitted raw. Maybe it's not purely arbitrary (or corrupt) but hard to believe it's objective and reproducible. I can't even make sense of some of the subs on 9.5 and lower cards, particularly centering on some Star BKB.

Interesting idea for an experiment though, if someone was willing to risk a black label by cracking and submitting it several times.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't collect many modern cards but one I follow is the 89 ud Griffey. A card with 2 9.5 sub grades and 2 10s (gem mt vs pristine) is still a 9.5 worth around 500 bucks. Upgrade one of those 9.5s to a 10 and the card is now a 10, worth about 3500. 4 10s is a black label, and now the card is 10-20k probably, I'd have to look it up. I couldn't even tell you the difference in card characteristics of gem mt vs pristine, other than the obvious, almost perfect vs perfect.

So if you took a 9.5 Griffey and changed, say, an edge subgrade from a 9.5 to a 10 (seems completely arbitrary to me), that adds 3K value? SMH at that.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So if you took a 9.5 Griffey and changed, say, an edge subgrade from a 9.5 to a 10 (seems completely arbitrary to me), that adds 3K value? SMH at that.

Not every 9.5 has 2 9.5 and 2 10 subgrades. But yes on one that does that's all it would take. I'm sure it's been done many times before. Just like guys who buy 50 or 100 Henderson rookies in a 9 and send them in hoping 1 will bump I'm sure guys pick up a bunch of bgs 9.5 or PSA 10 89 griffeys and do the same. If one guy, or a group of collectors has someone on the inside awarding these bumps with or without merit it would essentially be as good as just printing money.

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

Perhaps something like...

Triple Dog GEM MINT with all Caps?

Double Secret GEM Mint?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bram99

Perhaps something like...

Triple Dog GEM MINT with all Caps?

Double Secret GEM Mint?

Dunno. But all kidding and TPG bashing aside, if people have cards on this list and the ones published before and the ones yet to come, don't play ostrich. There's at least a good chance they're altered considering the source. Above all, don't draw a false sense of security from the fact that BO guys have not found specific before and after pics, that doesn't mean much in this context.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

Doctored!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Doctored!

haha

[Johnny630]

How can either company remain trusted ?? If PSA fails to take responsibility admits their wrong, and pays back full value for their bad cards I will never trust them again.
I’m sure they will do nothing, very sad and par for the course in this industry. Hope PSA proves me wrong....not holding breath.

[Directly]

Curious Beckett authentic--Is it possible this Griffey auto may have been added recently to this card and is it authentic, now listed as a auction on Ebay-- its appears signed with a bold sharpie quite different than all other examples I have seen on these dual signed card?

[jchcollins]

9 times out of 10 I really don't care about grading; I will buy graded online if all other things equal the price is in line with raw - but this stuff really makes my head spin. I have a Nolan Ryan rookie that is maybe a nice 5 that I was considering sending in to SGC just to get it in a slab - but now not sure I can even stomach doing that. I really wonder if the entire world of TPG's are getting ready to get stood on their collective ear...

[Bcwcardz]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A Beckett 9.5 is already GEM mint. What on earth is a 10 then?

Why stop at 10 when you can have...


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[sportscardtheory]

One thing I have yet to see mentioned is how Joe Clemons has strange cards intertwined into his BGS submissions. He got a BGS Black Label on a 2018 Topps Chrome Mookie Betts common with rough edges. Some see the grade as part of the scandal, I see it as a marker for the grader to know which submissions are Joe's. 'Mine's the submission with the Mookie Betts common.' That's how they know which one's are his so they can give him bullshit grades.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

One thing I have yet to see mentioned is how Joe Clemons has strange cards intertwined into his BGS submissions. He got a BGS Black Label on a 2018 Topps Chrome Mookie Betts common with rough edges. Some see the grade as part of the scandal, I see it as a marker for the grader to know which submissions are Joe's. 'Mine's the submission with the Mookie Betts common.' That's how they know which one's are his so they can give him bullshit grades.

At some point I just gave up on trying to follow the twists and turns of that thread, and now they are making charges against Brian Gray of Leaf as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Why is anyone surprised by this? If a card is available in a 9 and the bump from a 9 to a 10 is many multiples I would be shocked if this didn’t happen. The idiots paying the multiples for a barely discernible change are fueling this. They are getting what they should expect. It doesn’t make it right, but it is none-the-less inevitable.

Imagine the idiot who paid 125K for a PSA 10 52T Mantle back in, when was it, late 90s?

[samosa4u]

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Interesting that the only grading company which appears to have some evidence of crooked graders is Beckett.

that's for now. We know PSA has been crooked and have played favorites to their dealer network especially PWCC for YEARS & YEARS. Hopefully the proof will come out in our lifetime but it will definitely come out. The truth almost always wins out in the end. You know that.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

that's for now. We know PSA has been crooked and have played favorites to their dealer network especially PWCC for YEARS & YEARS. Hopefully the proof will come out in our lifetime but it will definitely come out. The truth almost always wins out in the end. You know that.

How do we “know” if the proof has yet to come out?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

How do we “know” if the proof has yet to come out?

His opinion, thought we beyond questioning opinions

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

His opinion, thought we beyond questioning opinions

I would not have questioned it if it was stated as an opinion. It was stated as a fact.