PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Time for PSA to do a recall, the same as the airbag fiasco or the ecoli tainted lettuce. Yes, it will cost them a lot of money, but that is the only way to make things right. And I'm holding my breath until it gets done.

But then, what would become of the tainted cards? Who do we trust to see that they are not recirculated? After all, it is money and greed that's driving this corruption.

There needs to be not only be a complete recall, but a governing body or branch of Law Enforcement to oversee the destruction of these cards. Similar to how the FBI confiscated the Marino Family "Autographs".

Either that, or the governing agency applies a hole-punch or back stamp to designate the card as altered. Anyone who trusts PSA to self-police or conduct this procedure is delusional. Otherwise, these cards would almost certainly make their way back into the hobby, just as before.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

But then, what would become of the tainted cards? Who do we trust to see that they are not recirculated? After all, it is money and greed that's driving this corruption.

There needs to be not only be a complete recall, but a governing body or branch of Law Enforcement to oversee the destruction of these cards. Similar to how the FBI confiscated the Marino "Autographs".

Either that, or the governing agency applies a hole-punch or back stamp to designate the card as altered. Anyone who trusts PSA to self-police or conduct this procedure is delusional. Otherwise, these cards would almost certainly make their way back into the hobby, just as before.

They aren't going to recall cards, why even take it to the next level? They're on their side, not ours.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They aren't going to recall cards, why even take it to the next level? They're on their side, not ours.

Well if PSA won't recall them, perhaps the FBI wil force the issue... as they did with the Marino Family Autographs. Check out the videos showing thousands of bogus pieces that were confiscated. Perhaps about the same number as there are bad cards floating around.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well if PSA won't recall them, perhaps the FBI wil force the issue... as they did with the Marino Family Autographs. Check out the videos showing thousands of bogus pieces that were confiscated. Perhaps about the same number as there are bad cards floating around.

I am skeptical PSA did anything criminal that the FBI can pursue, but I guess we'll see.

[mq711]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am skeptical PSA did anything criminal that the FBI can pursue, but I guess we'll see.

I agree about PSA's criminal charges, unless there is a trail that leads back to them concerning a conspiracy to intentionally grade altered/fake cards submitted by a certain party. If this can be proven, I think a strong larceny/false pretense conspiracy case can be made.

The case against the other two parties involved in this should scam should be a lot easier to prove.

[JeremyW]

After all the news, does PSA still bring the highest dollar?

[Johnny630]

No

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

After all the news, does PSA still bring the highest dollar?

Yes.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by mq711

I agree about PSA's criminal charges, unless there is a trail that leads back to them concerning a conspiracy to intentionally grade altered/fake cards submitted by a certain party. If this can be proven, I think a strong larceny/false pretense conspiracy case can be made.

The case against the other two parties involved in this should scam should be a lot easier to prove.

It might be criminal if they don't honor their guarantees

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by drcy

It might be criminal if they don't honor their guarantees

What's the crime?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by perezfan

But then, what would become of the tainted cards? Who do we trust to see that they are not recirculated? After all, it is money and greed that's driving this corruption.

There needs to be not only be a complete recall, but a governing body or branch of Law Enforcement to oversee the destruction of these cards. Similar to how the FBI confiscated the Marino Family "Autographs".

Either that, or the governing agency applies a hole-punch or back stamp to designate the card as altered. Anyone who trusts PSA to self-police or conduct this procedure is delusional. Otherwise, these cards would almost certainly make their way back into the hobby, just as before.

Ultimately, they should become the foundation of a reference collection that can be studied.
compared to other collectibles, they're somewhat unusula in having some remaining value. Most altered coins are made from inexpensive versions, sort of like turning a regular 87 Donruss into a Maddux. An altered very common coin most times ends up at the smelter.
A lot of the stamp fakery is also done by turning something very common and cheap into something expensive. Or outright fakery. The stamp I've shown with the certificate stating that the cancel is fake is a nice example. It was probably unused but had gotten stuck down so the gum wasn't there anymore. That sort of stuff is collected, just like a skinned Old Judge, but it's not an easy sale. However a used one with a nice color cancel is very easy to sell. So a fake cancel happened. (It's an example of a nice variety semi-ruined)

Some of the cards that got altered would be great to have around to examine. Like the trimmed Musial, it's still a nice looking card, and probably has no or nearly no surface wear.
Having it available to compare the printing to another one, or to be able to compare an edge trimmed with some skill to a factory edge would have some value. I can't see destroying them.

[painthistorian]

PSA for years numerically has graded bad cards & often rejects good cards...because they can get away with this, and they get paid regardless... and most collectors think their opinion is gospel which its not, its just an opinion.......unfortunately, it appears it depends on who submits, how much you submit, what tier you submit and who is the grader.....SGC is a far better grading service for their knowledge, even if you don't agree with the grade, they will explain their findings and they are correct much more than they are incorrect.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by perezfan

But then, what would become of the tainted cards? Who do we trust to see that they are not recirculated? After all, it is money and greed that's driving this corruption.

There needs to be not only be a complete recall, but a governing body or branch of Law Enforcement to oversee the destruction of these cards. Similar to how the FBI confiscated the Marino Family "Autographs".

Either that, or the governing agency applies a hole-punch or back stamp to designate the card as altered. Anyone who trusts PSA to self-police or conduct this procedure is delusional. Otherwise, these cards would almost certainly make their way back into the hobby, just as before.

If these cards are destroyed (doubt that it will), this will certainly bring up the value of the remaining cards that have not been altered. The POP reports for these remaining cards will be lower.

[swarmee]

Or it could be like post Hurricane Katrina where the business owners took the insurance payments and never rebuilt. Some will stay in the market, many will get soured on it and give up.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

If these cards are destroyed (doubt that it will), this will certainly bring up the value of the remaining cards that have not been altered. The POP reports for these remaining cards will be lower.

So in other words, get rid of the ENTIRE 1948 Leaf football set. Because that M****** F****** touched damn near every single card in that set.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

So in other words, get rid of the ENTIRE 1948 Leaf football set. Because that M****** F****** touched damn near every single card in that set.

[JeremyW]

According to the Blowout site, this quote from Joe Orlando has been removed from the PSA site.


"Today, there are those who are still trying it. Some of them are butchers and some of them are master artists, but it doesn't, in any way, change the approach of PSA graders. The tools have changed in some cases and the skill level of the whackers has heightened but so has the awareness of our experts -- that's what they are paid to do -- and that's why people have so much faith in the PSA process.

Just as in the everyday world of criminal justice, it's up to the authorities to keep up with or stay a step ahead of the criminals in order to prevent crime and catch them. As the world's sportscard grading authority, we take the same approach and will accept nothing less from our staff."
__________________

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

According to the Blowout site, this quote from Joe Orlando has been removed from the PSA site.


"Today, there are those who are still trying it. Some of them are butchers and some of them are master artists, but it doesn't, in any way, change the approach of PSA graders. The tools have changed in some cases and the skill level of the whackers has heightened but so has the awareness of our experts -- that's what they are paid to do -- and that's why people have so much faith in the PSA process.

Just as in the everyday world of criminal justice, it's up to the authorities to keep up with or stay a step ahead of the criminals in order to prevent crime and catch them. As the world's sportscard grading authority, we take the same approach and will accept nothing less from our staff."
__________________

It's obvious that Orlando's last paragraph is not working according to plan.
At this point I have ZERO faith in the PSA Process.....very sad.... they will take no responsibility...scammers trimmers doctors will continue, PSA can't catch them or prevent them...no consequences for the trimmers/doctors ...they just submit under surrogates...then consign to auction houses
Nothing to see here same business as usual ...Unfortunate :-(

[swarmee]

And now for something completely different:
PSA throws away a card worth $2,000.

Two others in thread say they heavily damaged cards while in their facility and still graded both a 9: one with a crease and one with heavy corner wear. Hearkens back to the folded over corner that was kept a PSA 8 on the post-war board last year.

PSA is just disgusting at this point.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1301445

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

If these cards are destroyed (doubt that it will), this will certainly bring up the value of the remaining cards that have not been altered. The POP reports for these remaining cards will be lower.

Stamp the back of the card with a scarlet "ALTERED!" using very low viscosity invisible fluorescent ink that will soak deep into the card. It will be easy to detect with a black light and maintain the visual appeal of the card without the need to destroy the card. I'm sure there will be ways around this as well, but you know d*mn well these cards won't be destroyed when ID-ed. And it still allows those that don't care about condition the chance at owning these.

[scottglevy]

IMO the biggest issue with properly rectifying the situation - based on my understanding of the extent and value of the “conserved” cards known - let alone the unknown cards is that there’s likely little chance that ANY tpg has the financial capacity to make it right ... eg fully reimburse the loss from the last sale to the new/true value. If my thoughts on this are accurate ... it doesn’t matter how much a company desires to “do the right thing” ... if they lack the funds to do so.