PWCC Auction Ending Tonight - Interesting Results

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I guess, I would agree with Ryan that the prices seemed low last night. I also think that Petes comment about the timing of the auction / people being tapped out has merit. As for the PSA 9 E98 Cobb, I think that card would have reached 35k plus in other auctions as they have been bringing nearly 40 in other major auctions recently. People consigning items should go where they can get the best price for their item. 1 + 1 still equals 2, right?

I think the E98 Cobb didn’t receive a higher bid is because most collectors are concerned that tomorrow another 100 pristine Cobbs could show up — which brings all sorts of questions including relating to authenticity of these high grade E98s. And why spend 30K on a card like that when you can spend it on a rare Cobb which will stay rare? I’ve got an extensive Cobb collection and for these reasons I’d never buy a high grade E98 Cobb.

[LincolnVT]

I respect your opinion and your Cobb collection, but I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing another batch of high end E98 cards. And yes, I am a bit biased on the E98 Cobb. Also VERY happily to have one and I'm not alone. I think the next time that a 9 is offered in a non-PWCC auction it is close to 40. Beautiful cards IMO.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I respect your opinion and your Cobb collection, but I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing another batch of high end E98 cards. And yes, I am a bit biased on the E98 Cobb. Also VERY happily to have one and I'm not alone. I think the next time that a 9 is offered in a non-PWCC auction it is close to 40. Beautiful cards IMO.

40????? Not even close to 30. The only way that card reaches 40 is if the starting bid is 40 - and just one person pulls the trigger.

[ullmandds]

not to hijack this thread...or beat on anyone...but according to VCP e98 cobb psa9 is trending lower than in the past.

With the current scandal rocking the hobby the mentality that everything just keeps going up over time will be shown to be untrue...imho of course.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

not to hijack this thread...or beat on anyone...but according to VCP e98 cobb psa9 is trending lower than in the past.

With the current scandal rocking the hobby the mentality that everything just keeps going up over time will be shown to be untrue...imho of course.

I think the scandal affects the higher grade stuff more than anything else due to skepticism.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I think the scandal effects the higher grade stuff more than anything else due to skepticism.

You say it effects,

I say it affects.

Let’s call the whole thing off.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fred and Ginger on roller skates -- classic.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

You say it effects,

I say it affects.

Let’s call the whole thing off.

Excuse my millennial brain. To hell with the English language and its complications. This is why we make things simpler by leaving out letters and using acronyms. So thx 4 correcting me. FWIW, I learned sumthing.

[LincolnVT]

You still thinking the next PSA 9 E98 Cobb doesn't bring close to $30k?

Originally Posted by calvindog

40????? Not even close to 30. The only way that card reaches 40 is if the starting bid is 40 - and just one person pulls the trigger.

[calvindog]

I like red cards.

[Leon]

No need to be an arse.
For the record, people who follow others around the forum giving them a hard time, usually end up never giving them (or anyone) a hard time on this forum anymore.

Concerning the original subject I will offer my same comment from before....

The PWCC auction had some lower prices but we'll just have to see how it goes in the future. I imagine a lot of factors play into it and one of them is less bidders.

Originally Posted by calvindog

I like red cards.

.

[Rhotchkiss]

Reviving this thread to get your thoughts on the PWCC auction that ended last night. Namely, what did you think of the vintage offerings and final hammer prices in last night's auction?

I would loved to own the E92 Nadja Lajoie, which went cheap (40% less than the same card sold for 2008), but I am currently not bidding with PWCC.

I thought the two T206 Green Cobbs (PSA 4.5 and SGC 4.5) went cheap. I thought the M116 Blue Wagner, the T206 Lajoie and Wajo Portraits, and the T206 Matty PB, all went for about what they were worth. The one card I was watching that exceeded expectations was the T206 Tinker portrait PSA 6.

All-in-all, I thought the pre 1920-vintage offerings were relatively weak and I thought the prices were unremarkable, which is a good thing/sign.

Thoughts?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I guess, I would agree with Ryan that the prices seemed low last night. I also think that Petes comment about the timing of the auction / people being tapped out has merit. As for the PSA 9 E98 Cobb, I think that card would have reached 35k plus in other auctions as they have been bringing nearly 40 in other major auctions recently. People consigning items should go where they can get the best price for their item. 1 + 1 still equals 2, right?

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

You still thinking the next PSA 9 E98 Cobb doesn't bring close to $30k?

You suggested that the only reason the PSA 9 E98 Cobb sold for $20,900 in PWCC was because people don't bid in PWCC as much anymore. Well, tonight in Heritage a PSA 9 E98 Cobb sold for $19,200. The card is dead because they're a dime a dozen now as I had said.

[Leon]

Definitely not true.
Actually, except for conspiracy theorists there is no authenticity question on the Black Swamp cards. The rest of the stuff I agree with and have almost always gone for rarity over condition.
I have held off bidding on some cards due to the scandal. I can't imagine collecting high grade stuff after what has been shown. But many, if not most collectors, have stuck their head in the sand or don't care if they have high grade altered cards in their collections. Personally it would bug me.

There could be several factors as to why PWCC isn't getting the prices right now. We all know what they are.

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think the E98 Cobb didn’t receive a higher bid is because most collectors are concerned that tomorrow another 100 pristine Cobbs could show up — which brings all sorts of questions including relating to authenticity of these high grade E98s. And why spend 30K on a card like that when you can spend it on a rare Cobb which will stay rare? I’ve got an extensive Cobb collection and for these reasons I’d never buy a high grade E98 Cobb.

[LincolnVT]

I need to agree with Leon on this one. The BSW cards have provenance...if one wants to purchase a high grade card, now more than ever provenance is important. My reason for picking one up while I was able. And yes, I think close to 40k in the next non-PWCC auctions for a PSA 9...I think the average sale for BSF 9s is in the 35k to 38k range based on past PSA 9 sales.

Originally Posted by Leon

Definitely not true.
Actually, except for conspiracy theorists there is no authenticity question on the Black Swamp cards. The rest of the stuff I agree with and have almost always gone for rarity over condition.
I have held off bidding on some cards due to the scandal. I can't imagine collecting high grade stuff after what has been shown. But many, if not most collectors, have stuck their head in the sand or don't care if they have high grade altered cards in their collections. Personally it would bug me.

There could be several factors as to why PWCC isn't getting the prices right now. We all know what they are.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I need to agree with Leon on this one. The BSW cards have provenance...if one wants to purchase a high grade card, now more than ever provenance is important. My reason for picking one up while I was able. And yes, I think close to 40k in the next non-PWCC auctions for a PSA 9...I think the average sale for BSF 9s is in the 35k to 38k range based on past PSA 9 sales.

Ethan, with all respect, and I'm not trying to harsh your buzz, but the card went for under 21K because that's what it's worth. Maybe on a good day it's worth 25K? Had your SGC 9.5 been won in a bidding war I'd tend to have more empathy for your argument but you were the only one who bid on it -- for a reason. No one else wanted it at 36K -- for a reason. Unlike you, additionally, I have no personal financial bias for my argument, i.e. I wasn't the sole bidder on the card which makes up the bulk of my collection.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Ethan, with all respect, and I'm not trying to harsh your buzz, but the card went for under 21K because that's what it's worth.

That may be what people here are saying. In this hobby, cards often don't sell, or "sell", for what they are worth.

I haven't trusted, or at least take with a large grain of salt, hobby "final prices realized at auction" for a long, long time. Beyond artificially raised prices due to shilling and valuations based on these artificially high or false prices, we all know that VCP and other 'price realized' lists include "sales" where there was no sale. And, with the current scandal, the hobby is realizing that, even if there was a sale, they can't even be sure what was sold-- though they sometimes find out the next week on BO.

Fake cards, or fake grade cards as in the case of the current scandal, can affect the market values of the cards that are known and proven to be real. Fro Joy Ruths are perhaps the best example. We know which Fro Joy Ruths are genuine, but all the past confusion has been "institutionalized" into the book and market prices. When sellers have to give each every potential bidder a history lesson, two-page essay and links to further reading to explain that "this PSA 9 is considered genuine but those others we don't know about and some are probably false and, to be candid, there are serious and widespread questions in the hobby as to whether PSA can even identify if a card is altered or not," the market value for PSA 9s across the board will be affected.

[Rhotchkiss]

Let’s get back to the generally low prices of the pwcc auction and off the specific e98 Cobb.

Jeff, I just shot you an email on a totally unrelated (fun card stuff) matter.

[calvindog]

David, fake sales prices are usually high ones, not low ones like the E98 last night.

And Ethan, no, I think the PSA 9 that sold last night is authentic. I just think high end E98s are not for everyone with money because of the huge populations in high grades. It's just not that special a card to everyone for that reason. The important thing is you love your card and that's all that should matter, no need to flog it here.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Let’s get back to the generally low prices of the pwcc auction and off the specific e98 Cobb.

Jeff, I just shot you an email on a totally unrelated (fun card stuff) matter.

Exactly...... the tide is turning over there.... the so called market, developed by them, in the general/grand scheme of things is set up perfectly for a major pull back.......

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

I need to agree with Leon on this one. The BSW cards have provenance...if one wants to purchase a high grade card, now more than ever provenance is important. My reason for picking one up while I was able. And yes, I think close to 40k in the next non-PWCC auctions for a PSA 9...I think the average sale for BSF 9s is in the 35k to 38k range based on past PSA 9 sales.

Sure, riddle me this. Why were they so miscut, when not a single example had ever surfaced before nor after bearing this trait?

[barrysloate]

I predicted in another thread that this Cobb would sell for quite a bit less than its last auction appearance, so I am not surprised at all. There are simply too many BSF cards, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the appearance is the same ones keep being offered for sale again and again. When was the last time anyone has seen a major auction without multiple BSF cards? There seems to be a never ending supply, and the market is burned out.

Add to that the possibility that the family held back a lot more E98's, and you can see why prices are going down. There is no sense of these being rare. Instead, they are seen by many as The Black Swamp Glut.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Sure, riddle me this. Why were they so miscut, when not a single example had ever surfaced before nor after bearing this trait?

Theory?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Theory?

Cast offs? No clue but it always seemed strange most these examples are unique in that way

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Cast offs? No clue but it always seemed strange most these examples are unique in that way

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

A run that was rejected perhaps, and now people are paying 50K for one.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Theory?

I suppose it’s possible that whoever originally owned the black swamp cards had them in uncut sheets and may be hired out someone to cut them and maybe that’s how they got cut that way??

Yet as soon as I typed this I realize that doesn’t make sense how does one account for there being so few Jennings cards?

[ullmandds]

Perhaps a new thread should be started to discuss these cards? Are there known e98 uncut sheets??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I suppose it’s possible that whoever originally owned the black swamp cards had them in uncut sheets and may be hired out someone to cut them and maybe that’s how they got cut that way??

Yet as soon as I typed this I realize that doesn’t make sense how does one account for there being so few Jennings cards?

Almost no Mathewsons, right?

[Leon]

This.
Not sure why there were fewer of certain players but there is 0 doubt in my mind, and most other collectors, that the cards are real and authentic....and almost untouched. BTW the family members couldn't have been nicer. I met them at the National (with Heritage) when they were originally found.

The PWCC auction had some lower prices but we'll just have to see how it goes in the future. I imagine a lot of factors play into it and one of them is less bidders.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I suppose it’s possible that whoever originally owned the black swamp cards had them in uncut sheets and may be hired out someone to cut them and maybe that’s how they got cut that way??

Yet as soon as I typed this I realize that doesn’t make sense how does one account for there being so few Jennings cards?

[LincolnVT]

Are you suggesting that the PSA 9 E98 that sold last night in PWCC might not be authentic? If so, I disagree. Back to Pete's point, there were two other major auctions taking place when I picked up my 9.5, so potential bidders could have been tapped out or committed to other cards. Either way, I'm happy with my card and would likely have paid more for it if I had to. If you look around, I think that you will find that the high grade Ty Cobb E98s have sold recently in the $37,500 range...you can disagree with me, but my opinion is that they will continue to be sought after by collectors in the right auctions.

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think the E98 Cobb didn’t receive a higher bid is because most collectors are concerned that tomorrow another 100 pristine Cobbs could show up — which brings all sorts of questions including relating to authenticity of these high grade E98s. And why spend 30K on a card like that when you can spend it on a rare Cobb which will stay rare? I’ve got an extensive Cobb collection and for these reasons I’d never buy a high grade E98 Cobb.