WW3 Please SAY NO!

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by egri

I'm very surprised that the Poles, Romanians, and the Baltic states aren't getting involved more. Once Putin gets done gobbling up Ukraine, they are next on the menu. And if the Finns want Karelia back, now's the time to get it.

He's not touching Poland or Romania.

He just wants what the Soviet Union lost.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

He's not touching Poland or Romania.

He just wants what the Soviet Union lost.

The Baltic States?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

He's not touching Poland or Romania.

He just wants what the Soviet Union lost.

The Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore. Not any more then Yugoslavia, or an undivided Korea.

Russia exists. Ukraine exists. Soviet Union does not. There are countries that CHOSE to remain under the influence of Russia. Ukraine was not one of them.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

He's not touching Poland or Romania.

He just wants what the Soviet Union lost.

They were both part of the Eastern Bloc.

[Shoeless Moe]

sorry, to clarify, he just wants those countries they had that are not NATO countries, or that was his original plan anyway.

so I highly doubt he's going after Poland, Romania and the Baltic States.

especially after he sees how this is going.

he's gonna get Ukraine back and that will probably be the end of it, again after he saw how everyone else has united against him.

If he was hoping for ALL those countries, guessing this has changed his mind. He'll take Ukraine though, what's left of it anyway.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

sorry, to clarify, he just wants those countries they had that are not NATO countries, or that was his original plan anyway.

so I highly doubt he's going after Poland, Romania and the Baltic States.

especially after he sees how this is going.

he's gonna get Ukraine back and that will probably be the end of it, again after he saw how everyone else has united against him.

If he was hoping for ALL those countries, guessing this has changed his mind. He'll take Ukraine though, what's left of it anyway.

Thanks for the clarification. I don't disagree with much of what you've said here and in later posts.

I think he was hoping to take Ukraine in one piece early on, so he wouldn't have to rebuild it for his own purposes.

There's definitely resources in the Ukraine he wants to extract for himself. He's been stewing on this since 2014 when free elections and Zelensky, essentially kicked him out of the country.

Crimea was just the start.

Coincidentally (or not), the largest known deposit of Gold in the Ukraine, is in the Donbass region.

Not to mention all the lithium, uranium and coal that comes out of The Ukraine.

If he doesn't get to keep it, he's certainly going to try and completely flatten it on the way out.

[Shoeless Moe]

It's time to wave the white flag.

I know Zelensky & the Ukraines want to fight, but Zelensky will save a lot of lives if he throws in the towel.

It's going to be the same outcome whether they fight now or not.

At a certain point in a boxing match the manager has to say does he want his guy to continue to take a beaten or stop it and hope for another day down the road.

If you are eliminated there is no new day down the road.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

It's time to wave the white flag.

I know Zelensky & the Ukraines want to fight, but Zelensky will save a lot of lives if he throws in the towel.

It's going to be the same outcome whether they fight now or not.

At a certain point in a boxing match the manager has to say does he want his guy to continue to take a beaten or stop it and hope for another day down the road.

If you are eliminated there is no new day down the road.

I had dinner with one of my former professors and advisor last night. He heads the history department at the college I attended and is probably one of the top 5 experts on WWI in the United States. His wife is a fellow at a major European political policy institute which is providing some of the most accurate and precise analysis of the war. His analysis is thus:

Starting at 0% from the moment Russia invaded he gives Ukraine a half percent more chance to win (Russian eventual withdrawal with no occupation) with every 48 hours that passes with the Ukrainian government intact and a supply line from NATO forces to Ukrainian.

They are out manned 11-1 and outgunned 100-1, but.... they are arguably much better trained, have better personal equipment, knowledge of the war zone, and most importantly a desire to fight to defend their homeland and democracy. Kyiv will likely become a battle for every building and in that scenario it normally takes 5 highly trained and motivated attackers for every 1 defender. As the world as astoundingly realized, the Russian main assault force has proven to be poorly trained and supported, lacking such basic needs as adequate comms, fuel, and rations.

You are absolutely right that someone should surrender to save more spilled blood - the Russian invading force. I would never expect my nation to kneel to an autocratic invasion and I sure wouldn’t ever ask someone else to do so either.

Zelensky is damned hero in the face of adversity unmatched, or as my friend put it “The world witnessing another Nation’s George Washington in real time.”

I sincerely hope Ukraine fights until the tide turns and the invading snake decapitates itself.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I had dinner with one of my former professors and advisor last night. He heads the history department at the college I attended and is probably one of the top 5 experts on WWI in the United States. His wife is a fellow at a major European political policy institute which is providing some of the most accurate and precise analysis of the war. His analysis is thus:

Starting at 0% from the moment Russia invaded he gives Ukraine a half percent more chance to win (Russian eventual withdrawal with no occupation) with every 48 hours that passes with the Ukrainian government intact and a supply line from NATO forces to Ukrainian.

They are out manned 11-1 and outgunned 100-1, but.... they are arguably much better trained, have better personal equipment, knowledge of the war zone, and most importantly a desire to fight to defend their homeland and democracy. Kyiv will likely become a battle for every building and in that scenario it normally takes 5 highly trained and motivated attackers for every 1 defender. As the world as astoundingly realized, the Russian main assault force has proven to be poorly trained and supported, lacking such basic needs as adequate comms, fuel, and rations.

You are absolutely right that someone should surrender to save more spilled blood - the Russian invading force. I would never expect my nation to kneel to an autocratic invasion and I sure wouldn’t ever ask someone else to do so either.

Zelensky is damned hero in the face of adversity unmatched, or as my friend put it “The world witnessing another Nation’s George Washington in real time.”

I sincerely hope Ukraine fights until the tide turns and the invading snake decapitates itself.

Well hopefully he studied WWII as well. Look at Stalingrad. Germans had the better army, but in time the numbers win out. The supply lines will eventually be cut off. Putin who already isn't playing fair, will continue to up that. And he'll gladly give up 5 of his for 1 of theirs.

Stalingrad took 6 months. Obviously not exactly the same situation, but similar enough. This will be over in a much shorter time frame.

Sad, but true.

Edited to add - I also do not want to see all those kids and babies grow up without a dad. I understand and respect and am in awe of Zelensky's passion/patriotism/dedication, but I prefer to see him and everyone left live. Zelensky should negotiate a surrender, maybe they can get a third of the country, Putin takes 2/3. Try to get it back down the road. Putin ain't gonna live forever. It would save a lot of lives.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

It's time to wave the white flag.

I know Zelensky & the Ukraines want to fight, but Zelensky will save a lot of lives if he throws in the towel.

It's going to be the same outcome whether they fight now or not.

At a certain point in a boxing match the manager has to say does he want his guy to continue to take a beaten or stop it and hope for another day down the road.

If you are eliminated there is no new day down the road.

Is the goal to keep breathing, or to be able to actually live a life? We're seeing exactly what Putin is, and how casually he's willing to murder people by the thousands. Do you suppose existing under his iron fist would be a life you would want for yourself and your family?

"Give me liberty or give me death..."

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Mark17

"Give me liberty or give me death..."

That's a false dilemma.