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#1
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Matt
Was anyone else surprised by the number of lots in the Hunt auction today that didn't sell? Looking at lots 700-820 (the prewar cards) it looks like approximately every 3rd lot didn't sell. I don't exactly understand their system, but it seems they reserve lots at something like 80% of their estimated range, and if no bid comes in above that, then they hold the lot. Aside from the "hidden reserve" some of their estimated prices seemed very high, which caused them not to sell. |
#2
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Sean
yeah, i bid on a lot that says it did not sell. That sucks! grrrrrrr |
#3
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Matt
Lots 723-819 were their pre-war card offerings in this auction; 97 lots. 42 of those lots went unsold due to hidden reserves not being met. |
#4
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Mark
Matt: |
#5
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Tom Boblitt
And won 4 lots but non of which were cards. They blew through the card lots because they were running behind. The auction started at 10:00 and was still going at 6pm. The auctioneer took only a 5 minute break during that whole time. Don't know how he did that. Seemed like the card prices, other than the Kalamazoo Bats, were pretty low. Didn't mention that they weren't selling so that wasn't apparent in the room. |
#6
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: jdrum
Was there as well. No sense that there were hidden reserves. If so, I think they suffered the fate of a soft economy with a combination of optimistic estimated values for generally lower grade material. |
#7
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: leon
I just took a quick look at the prices realized for pre-war cards. They look indicative of the soft market we are in. The items that did not sell (DNS) were quite a few in number. I can empathize with that, unfortunately. I guess no auction house will be immune to some of this kind of behavior in this crappy economy. regards |
#8
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: barrysloate
I certainly felt the sting of the economy last Thursday night. Not much you can do about it. |
#9
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Matt
There is a big difference between a reserve disclosed while the auction is ongoing and this, where "Didn't mention that they weren't selling so that wasn't apparent in the room." Being able to see all the bids before disclosing if a lot has sold opens a giant black hole. |
#10
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: leon
We are in agreement. I can only speak for myself but in our last auction our consignors dictated a lot of the openings and reserves. I know we will be more careful in the future. I would expect to see more of this though, in this economy. I too have a personal issue on bidding on cards where the reserves are not known....but again, each company has to do what they think is best for their business. There is a fine line between taking a loss and not selling something at all..... regards |
#11
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: davidcycleback
Unless you financially have to sell, I think in a down economy the seller is more willing to have an item not sell and hold it for later date. If the economy is doing well, then you are willing to let things fly. From a practical standpoint, if the market is down, I don't know why a seller would have that market dictate his prices, when he can wait and potentially have a better market dictate prices. Thus, the stop gap in the down market is higher minimums and/or reserves. Again, this works if the seller doesn't have to to sell at any given moment. |
#12
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
"if the market is down, I don't know why a seller would have that market dictate his prices, when he can wait and potentially have a better market dictate prices." |
#13
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: LetsGoBucs
Buyers of course want the system that allows them to buy things for as cheaply as possible. Sellers don't necessarily subscribe to that system. A free down market dictating prices is what the buyers what, not the sellers. It shouldn't surprise that sellers put up a road blocks in a down market and bidders dislike them. |
#14
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: davidcycleback
I agree with your truth in advertising point. An advertised auction should be an auction. At some point, if there are too many unmet and unreasonable reserves and minimums, the auction feels more like a sale than an auction. The Graduate is a fine movie, but viewers answering the theatre's ad for Chinatown are anticipating that Chinatown will be shown. |
#15
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Jamie
I believe this is actually common practice in the art world. At Christie's, recently 2/3's of the paintings did not meet estimates. Christie's had already guaranteed money to all the consigners, so they got it pretty bad. |
#16
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Bob C
I won the Police Gazette Boxing Lot for well below my estimated market price. Good news bad news. |
#17
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Jamie
Bob, |
#18
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: davidcyleback
It's best not to catch a knife whichever direction it's moving. |
#19
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Paul
The Kalamazoo Bat Harry Wright seemed to do ok. |
#20
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Bobby Binder
They got some insane prices for the T205 |
#21
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: leon
I would be careful about talking about "misleading" concerning descriptions of these 2 cards. Both have common backs but if you had looked at the auction you would know that both of these cards look like NRMT-MT on the front and both are said to have light residue on the backs, which account for their lower technical grade. Someone bought the cards and not the holders.......Nothing misleading at all.....TO me the prices were a little high on these 2 but they are spectacular cards....For the record I have no affiliation at all with Hunt Auctions.....though I do bid in some of their auctions. regards |
#22
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Bobby Binder
Leon, |
#23
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
Hunt did not show the backs in the catalog but that did not mean you could not request scans or see the cards for themselves. I saw the backs of the T205s and don't feel they were described consistently with their condition. Residue is not the word that was used. Toning is the word that was used. The entire backs of the cards looked like they were darkly stained with coffee and could in fact be tobacco but in all likelihood is glue residue. Some of the ungraded examples had significant paper loss and even with the first layers of paper missing the staining was present. |
#24
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Matt
The lot of 12 back-stained T205 HOFers (lot 762) did not meet the hidden reserve in their last live auction 6 months ago and was re-offered in this one, where it, again, failed to meet the hidden reserve. |
#25
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: leon
Since the backs had the issues they should have been shown.....I can agree that that was something they should have done....I used the word residue from memory but if they said toning then so be it....Good luck to whomever tries to get the backs cleaned up....They are really nice fronts...... |
#26
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: MikeB
I also attended the auction. One of the people there told me the toning was due to the cards |
#27
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: barrysloate
If the cards had "slat burns", the term used for an object that is discolored from being in contact with wood, they are almost impossible to remove. If the buyer is faced with that he is not going to be happy with his purchase. |
#28
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Mark
Matt... |
#29
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Tom Boblitt
and they were incredible cards. BUT.........cards with back stains as Greg said. Otherwise, they'd minimally been 7's, 8's, 9's. I'd agree that someone is going to attempt something on those backs to move them into much higher holders. Who knows......science is ever evolving..........couple of them were bought by people in the room. |
#30
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: JimB
Barry said, |
#31
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: quan
yea jim, i even had the winning bid on the e94 young but lost (someone was there first)...and i refused to be the first to push an e94 young 30 over the 2k mark. |
#32
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Evan
I had consigned a consigned a couple of items to the auction. Although I did not request a reserve I was happy with the results. With the present financial climate, I think that those consigners who may have bought at the high point are trying to recoup their "investment" before things get any worse. The auction house may allow the consigners to set a minimum sale price. It may seem annoying to the bidders, but the auction house does "work" for the seller. Many auction houses don't care about their consigners, maybe we should appreciate the fact that Hunt seems to. Just one mans opinion. |
#33
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: barrysloate
Jim and Quan: the E94's were the strongest segment of the auction. The other areas were pretty soft, with of course some lots doing well. |
#34
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Fred C
In an effort to have everyone understand the bidding I think that auction houses should either set the minimum bid as the reserve or let everyone know which lots may have a reserve price that has to be met. My rationale for this is simple. Lots of us aren't made of money and we bid in auctions based on what we have to spend. Maybe I'm not going to bid on something because I feel the $2K that I have on one card may be the winning bid so I forgo bidding on other lots. If I knew there was a reserve price and I didn't meet it then I might bid on other lots because the $2K is not a potential obligation as a winning bid. |
#35
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: dan mckee
I consigned a lot but don't remember giving him a reserve on it yet it DNS. |
#36
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Rob D.
Dan, |
#37
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Mark
It might be called shilling, but Ebay allows reserves as well. People often find themselves bidding against the Ebay reserve, rather than against other bidders. |
#38
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: jdrum
Mark, |
#39
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Rob D.
Mark, |
#40
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Jim VB
I think I know what Mark means. On Ebay, say the opening bid is $10 and the reserve is $100, and you bid $120. No one else bids the entire auction. For the duration, the auction will show the actual bid at $10 and "reserve not met". But upon auction closing, your bid will be put in at the reserve price and you will win the item at $100. |
#41
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Mark
It's just a different method to get you up to the consignor's lowest accepted price. Nobody forces you to keep bidding against the house (if the price exceeds your parameters), and are able to stop at any time. |
#42
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Matt
Since they know your absentee bid, what stops them from bidding you up until one slot below your max and saying that was the hidden reserve? Hunt has a decent reputation and I'm not saying they do this, but the slope is a slick one. |
#43
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Fred C
Jim, |
#44
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Mark
Matt: |
#45
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Jim VB
Fred, |
#46
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Rob D.
I think Fred is correct: When you place a bid in an eBay reserve listing, and your bid matches or surpasses the reserve, the high bid becomes the reserve price immediately. |
#47
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Jim VB
Well, I certainly could be wrong. (Just ask my wife.) |
#48
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Rob D.
Jim, unless things have changed recently on eBay, your examples are correct. |
#49
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Mark
Fred and Rob are correct. As the reserve is met, the new bid stands only at the exact dollar amount of the reserve which was set... no matter how much higher the amount of the actual bid that was placed. |
#50
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Hunt Auctions "Est. Price Range"
Posted By: Fred C
Jim, |
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