Possible newly discovered T205 variation

[danmckee]

Are all of the Moran and Gray variations consistant with a specific back like the Wilhelm? Meaning is all brands of the back that these variations are found all have the variation? I thought the Moran and possibly Gray are found with both variations on the same brand back? I am not sure but I think this makes a huge difference as to scarcity and value. I don't think the Wilhelm Piedmont card should command an extra value at all. The Hassan back is much tougher to find for Wilhelm. Thanks, I think Joshua can answer this for me. Dan.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Are all of the Moran and Gray variations consistant with a specific back like the Wilhelm? Meaning is all brands of the back that these variations are found all have the variation? I thought the Moran and possibly Gray are found with both variations on the same brand back? I am not sure but I think this makes a huge difference as to scarcity and value. I don't theink the Wilhelm Piedmont card should command an extra value at all. The Hassan back is much tougher to find for Wilhelm. Thanks, I think Joshua can answer this for me. Dan.

I think everyone is in agreement that the White "no quotes" shouldn't carry any major premium.

[Wite3]

Dan and all,
The Gray with stats comes with only two backs...Piedmont Fact. 25 and Sovereign.
The Gray without stats comes Honest Long Cut, Polar Bear, and all three Sweet Cap. backs.

The Moran with stray line is found with Polar Bear only.
The Moran without stray line is found with American Beauty Black, Cycle, Drum, Honest Long Cut, Piedmont Fact. 25, Polar Bear, Sovereign, and Sweet Cap Red.

I can say that the Moran with stray line is more infrequent than that of the Gray w/ stats.

I also feel that the Moran was an error that was fixed and that Gray w/ stats was included in two later print runs.

Hopefully this answered Dan's question.

BTW...Gray no stats Piedmont is one of my mystery cards. I feel it should exist but it just does not. Strange.

Joshua

PS These lists my be incomplete as I am working off my paper list at home and not the computer one at work.

[marcdelpercio]

Joshua,
I would love to get a copy of your list if you are willing to share. I have owned and tracked quite a few T205s and have attempted to put together a master list myself though I'm sure your data is much more complete than mine. I'd be glad to add anything to your list that I'm able to. Thanks again for all of your research.

[lentel]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Dan and all,
The Gray with stats comes with only two backs...Piedmont Fact. 25 and Sovereign.
The Gray without stats comes Honest Long Cut, Polar Bear, and all three Sweet Cap. backs.

The Moran with stray line is found with Polar Bear only.
The Moran without stray line is found with American Beauty Black, Cycle, Drum, Honest Long Cut, Piedmont Fact. 25, Polar Bear, Sovereign, and Sweet Cap Red.

I can say that the Moran with stray line is more infrequent than that of the Gray w/ stats.

I also feel that the Moran was an error that was fixed and that Gray w/ stats was included in two later print runs.

Hopefully this answered Dan's question.

BTW...Gray no stats Piedmont is one of my mystery cards. I feel it should exist but it just does not. Strange.

Joshua

PS These lists my be incomplete as I am working off my paper list at home and not the computer one at work.

Josh my moran with stray line has a piedmont back

[martin neal]

Hi Josh,

Here's a scan of a Moran I used to own.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Since this was brought back up, I have a question to pose to all that think that any of the variations that show up only on one specific back.

Please explain your argument as to why these should be stand out variations with no correction to the back and why every back variation should not be listed.

The argument I see from you folks is that if an error was made on back, (Matty 37-1, only verified Cycle) than that justifies it being listed. But the matty with Piedmont has correct text with a Piedmont ad variation, why is this not listed? The Matty Sweet Cap has correct text but different than Cycle and Piedmont, thus a variation. This goes on with all different ad backs.

I think we all want continuity in the listing and by adding variation with errors specific to one back is doing an injustice to not listing each ad back variation for a card.

The Demmit and O'hara seem to be your only argument, to me it also could be list as Polar Bear backs but it sure is easier to make them St. louis vartiations because people tens to read the front much more and more easily identified.

Will the believers please answer the question, without using the Demmitt O'Hare as an example. Just because something is written it doesn't always make it right and sometimes through time evidience is found to change things. Bob lemke is constantly updating the SCD with new evidence (The Matty Cycle has always been known, just not so publically noticed with the 37-1 back).


Please explain your argument as to why these should be stand out variations with no correction to the back and why every back variation should not be listed.

I really want to hear a good explaination on my question,

Lee

[Matt]

Lee - the established criterion for T-card variations is a variation in the text that is player specific.

As the Ads are through the whole set and not player specific, they certainly count towards a "true master set" which comprises every front/back possibility, but not to what collectors call a "master set" which doesn't count ad-back variations and only uses the criterion I explained above.