1966 Mantle, green #50

[Bob Lemke]

A fellow contacted me about a 1966 Mantle with a green card number on back.

66 mantle green 50.jpg

The overall look of the front and back scans suggest to me this is a Venezuelan Topps card. Can anybody confirm or refute?

[a761506]

I have two 1966 Venezuelan Mantle's and both have numbers in a red-orange color, the same brighter red-orange color the back of a Venezuelan card is printed in. Is there any chance you could post a picture of the entire back of the card?

I have never heard of any sort of variation on this card. Other than the checklist variations, which are the same as the US checklist variations, and the only reason for that is both variations were printed on the same sheet here in the US, there are no other known variations in the entire 1966 Venezuelan set. I suspect it is a printing anomaly as opposed to a true variation. I have been dealing with Venezuelan cards for years, trying to collect detailed information about them, with most of the info coming from Venezuelan locals. Never once before has there been a peep about any variation with the 1966 Mantle, and I have talked about possible variations with every single one of my contacts.

[Bob Lemke]

66 Mantle f and b.jpg

My theory that this was a Venezuelan card was just a WAG.

Any thoughts?

[a761506]

That card does not appear to be a Venezuela Topps card... the cardstock is too white, especially on the back. The Venezuelan cards have a distinctly beige cardstock. If you have the card in your possession and can examine it personally, it would also have a grainy, sandstone-like appearance of the stock on the back, and the front would be completely lacking gloss. I have little doubt it will not have those characteristics.

I suspect the card was on a salesman's sample 3-card panel and was cut off cleanly. The only place I can think of where green ink would have possibly been used on the reverse would have been a salesman's sample. There is not a single card in the entire 1966 set that has that color green ink on the reverse, however, salesman's samples were often printed with green ink.

[oaks1912]

Bob... I recall buying a group of mid 60s cards many years ago that were improperly stored & cared for.... garage or shed likely... A number of the cards had chemicals which had spilled on them and this cocktail resulted in strange color blotches on the reverse. In my case there was no premium attached, or suggested. They simply went into the offgrade bin and were sold very cheaply. Without knowing the circumstances surrounding this Mantle (provenance, did it turn up alone or in a group, assigned or misperceived value by seller, etc) I would hesitate at speculating what this could be until I could examine it in person

[ALR-bishop]

Good input Josh, You ought to post a link to your web site. Great stuff

[Bob Lemke]

That shouldn't be too impossible to check out. Anybody got one laying around?

[fkw]

Like Mark M. brought up. Would it be possible for someone to purposely dab a chemical only on the card number and have the ink change color???

Everything else about the card is normal, even the 1964 line being misaligned.

Very interesting

[mickey7mantle7]

Originally Posted by fkw

Like Mark M. brought up. Would it be possible for someone to purposely dab a chemical only on the card number and have the ink change color???

Everything else about the card is normal, even the 1964 line being misaligned.

Very interesting

Why would anyone even do that?

[Throck]

I have one of these too - does anyone have any more info than what is in this thread?



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[swarmee]

Hi, are you the same member of the Facebook group I mentioned to ask about it here? Otherwise, there is another one found recently.

[ALR-bishop]

Vey nostalgic to see a thread started by Bob on one of the many hobby mysteries he used to explore.

Would be great to know more about these cards and their origin. I think 1967 was the last year for Topps Salesman Sample 3 card strips. I have several including one for 1966. While in some years there was an ad on the back of two cards and a regular back on the third card, the back and front did not usually match the same player. But in 1966 the 3 card panel I have has no regular back card. The 3d card is a second ad for the Rub Off inserts for that year. So no green number.

[swarmee]

PSA has no record of a 1966 Salesman's Sample graded with Mantle on it. They only have "Howie Koplitz/Jim Lonborg/Luis Aparicio", "Don Mossi/Jim Fregosi/Sandy Koufax", and the guy selling a bunch on eBay only has 30 copies of "Pepitone/Niekro/Wagner".

I'm still leaning towards reprint rather than printing anomaly. Why would only the Mantle have a card number in green?

[goheels]

I am with Al. So good to see Bob's name in print again. What a great man.

I am betting this is a reprint but it is fascinating. Are there printing experts out there that could tell if this is a reprint or not? Print dots, marks, etc?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by goheels

I am with Al. So good to see Bob's name in print again. What a great man.

I am betting this is a reprint but it is fascinating. Are there printing experts out there that could tell if this is a reprint or not? Print dots, marks, etc?

+1 on Bob.....couple thoughts on this card: 1)if this card is legit, more than likely there should be other 66s with green numbers on the back also, at least from the same series. 2) Neither of the example cards are centered, so I am thinking they may not be reprints, but were they altered in some way(as previously mentioned stained w/a chemical, etc)?

[Throck]

[QUOTE=swarmee;1722184]Hi, are you the same member of the Facebook group I mentioned to ask about it here? Otherwise, there is another one found recently.

[\QUOTE]


That is not me, so there is another one. I can tell you, it feels just like a regular card and (this may sound weird) smells like a regular card. The color is not as rich but that (and the green number) are the only differences.

The mystery continues. I'd love to find out more.




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[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by mickey7mantle7

Why would anyone even do that?

Remember, there are still folks alive who put '52 Topps Mantles in their bike spokes. HOLY CRAP!

[Throck]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Hi, are you the same member of the Facebook group I mentioned to ask about it here? Otherwise, there is another one found recently.

Nope that's not me. Here's a full photo of mine:



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[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Throck

Nope that's not me. Here's a full photo of mine:



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Any chance you have a normal one to put side by side and take pictures of them together. The whole card looks a little off to me, so does the other one pictured with the green #.

[swarmee]

Interesting that both those cards have the three black dots (left of elbow, top of arm, right hand). Same with the one Bob posted 8 years ago. The ones on COMC have none of those dots.
I'm still leaning fake.

[Throck]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Any chance you have a normal one to put side by side and take pictures of them together. The whole card looks a little off to me, so does the other one pictured with the green #.

Unfortunately I don't. I can tell you the color is not as bold as the typical '66. But other than that (and of course the green #) it looks real. It also feels and (this may seem strange) smells like a real card.

Maybe someday I'll find out something. Until then it's a good conversation piece!


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[cardinalcollector]

The condition of those "new" green #d Mantle's is astounding. 2 new discoveries 51 years after the original issue, and near mint condition. What are the odds of that?