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#1
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Searching for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these extremely rare "T215" cards ?
These Pirate cards were printed concurrently with the Red Cross (T215-1) cards, circa 1910-1912.
Both sets appear to have in common identical fronts; however, no Cobb has been found with the Pirate back. At least one Cobb (bat off shoulder) has been confirmed with a Red Cross back. . Hey Net54er's, those of you fortunate to have a Pirate card (or two), why not show them to us ? Thanx Jon Canfield, for my pretty looking Pirate cigarette pack. Now, I need a T215 Pirate card to complement it. TED Z Last edited by tedzan; 11-05-2017 at 08:45 PM. |
#2
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pirate
Ted,
great looking pack!!! i,too, have a pirates pack from the great and gracious Jon Canfield but have been searching months for a reasonably priced card to go with it. i'm thinking we may have to go with a non-baseball pirate and just show the back!! best, barry |
#3
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I have bunches of the oriental character pirate cards...but no baseball. I almost bought one from Davis Festburg at the 95 nat'l...but I mistook his 1500 pricetag for $150. When I realized it was 1500...I walked away!!!!
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#4
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here's one
wish I knew how to make them bigger.
http://members.auctionhawk.com/sb1/2936144-scan0002.jpg http://members.auctionhawk.com/sb1/2936145-scan0003.jpg Last edited by sb1; 05-04-2010 at 12:59 PM. |
#5
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I've been meaning to post a thread about this. What is the origins of the Pirate set being ascribed as T215....which is a Louisiana issue? No copy of the ACC has ever shown T215 as including the Pirate subset. Shouldn't these cards be ascribed as T-UNC? It is irrelevent to me that these were printed at the same time period, for a completely different market.
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#6
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Peter
Fine, show us your oriental character pirate cards......as, I don't think we are going to see any great number of BB cards.
TED Z |
#7
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Orioles1954
1st......I have been skeptical of the claim that the T215 cards are a Louisiana issue. The Red Cross
backs have a New Jersey Factory on them. 2nd......I somewhat agree with you, the Pirate issue should have it's own classification (T-xyz). As, it is white-bordered set that was issued abroad. TED Z |
#8
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Not mine (but I wish it was!) and I don't remember where I got the scan.
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craig_w67217@yahoo.com |
#9
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#10
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#11
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#12
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Wow, where are those pictures from?
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#13
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__________________
For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com. |
#14
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Double Action
Ted --
Here's a few non-baseball since you asked...kind of cool since they have a bit different back. If anybody wants to trade a beater for a few, let me know... Take Care, Geno |
#15
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Quote:
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#16
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Jon - I think I've told you before - that is the sweetest pack that I have ever seen!
Last edited by rman444; 05-04-2010 at 07:10 PM. |
#17
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Those birdy pirate backs are coooll!!! Here are some of my oriental characters...I've always liked these!
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#18
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It is a very neat pack and not seen often at all. I know of 2 others although I'm sure there are some more around I'm not aware of.
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For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com. |
#19
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I have a few of the oriental cards as well-the baseball cards that I have seen are the Doolan-last I seen it was in a Verkman auction-I have also seen a Tinker and a Wagner bat on right at the last Philly show and I think it will be in a upcomming Goodwin. I have also seen the Pelty Scott posted but that is all I can remember besides the set in Legendary. I am sure there are a few in some old collections-it would be nice to see some more.
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T206Resource.com |
#20
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Last edited by rman444; 05-05-2010 at 12:25 AM. |
#21
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Orioles1954......et al
The T215 cards were printed in New York City (as most of that era's T-cards), then shipped to Jersey City, NJ to the Lorillard plant (Factory #10) to be inserted into the Red Cross tobacco products. The "Louisiana connection" is based on a large find of these cards many years back from the Louisiana area. I would conclude that someone from the NY-NJ area moved to Louisiana a long time ago and brought with them a large collection of Red Cross cards. Regarding your 2nd question...... " Additionally, who decided in the hobby to give this the T215 designation and why was it accepted? " Of course Burdick did....and, I would assume he classified the Pirate cards as T215 since these cards have identical fronts as the T215-1 issue. TED Z |
#22
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Looking for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these rare T215 cards ?
Thanks Craig, Geno, Jon, Peter, Richard and sb1.....for sharing your Pirate cards and related items.
Hey guys, let's see some more Pirate "goodies" here. TED Z |
#23
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Quote:
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#24
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does anyone know if all of the baseball t215 pirates are found with the same closed cigarette box back?
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#25
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What is not in the ACC regarding T215 cards ?
I'm not citing anything from the ACC....what I stated is what I know. TED Z |
#26
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T206Resource.com |
#27
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Quote:
I'm not trying to be hard to get along with or anything, just want to satisfy something I've been wondering for awhile. If not in the ACC, then where did Burdick call "Pirates" as part of the T215 designation? Source? Anything? Last edited by Orioles1954; 05-05-2010 at 10:01 AM. |
#28
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Orioles1954
I'm not either....I fully agree with your thoughts regarding these Pirates cards. They should have their
own numerical classification. Let's see what other opinions are ? TED Z |
#29
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Quote:
I think they should be included in T206 (Sorry, I just couldn't resist saying that after all the T213-1 discussions!)
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craig_w67217@yahoo.com |
#30
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Just remembered where I got the scan of the Doolan - 2008 REA. Here's the link: http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2008/441.html
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craig_w67217@yahoo.com |
#31
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Looking for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these rare T215 cards ?
Craig W
I would assume that the Pirate 96-card set that sold a few years ago included a Cobb. It sounds like a complete set. Since this Pirate issue is identical to the T215-1 issue; therefore, the Cobb should be the Bat off Shoulder version. TED Z |
#32
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It was a near set...and did NOT include a Cobb.
http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=75301 |
#33
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are ther any other sets that have a 97 card checklist?
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T206Resource.com |
#34
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Interesting thought Jim.
97 is a prime number (can't be divided by anything and still get a whole number). So, (unless cards were printed one at a time, which is quite unlikely) if the cards were printed on sheets, a sheet would have to have all the same front; OR there would have to be double prints; OR there would have to be some non-baseball fronts on the baseball sheets.
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craig_w67217@yahoo.com Last edited by White Borders; 05-05-2010 at 08:32 PM. |
#35
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Is the reason for thinking there is a Cobb with a Pirate back based on the crossing of the Type 1's ? Just wondering,because if that were the case, what about :
1.) Crandall,New York Nat'l -Type 1,but no Pirate 2.)Ball,Cleveland -Type 1,but no Pirate 3.)Conroy,Washington -Type 1,but no Pirate 4.)Hartsel,Toledo - Type 1,but no Pirate 5.)Latham, N.Y. Nat'l -Type 1,but no Pirate Anyhow, there are more-just using these as an example.And there seem to be more Pirate backed cards that don't have a Type 1 example,than the other way around. So,is the theory that there is a Cobb with a Pirate back somewhere out there because there is a Cobb Type 1 ? Sincerely,Clayton |
#36
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Quote:
Bill |
#37
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Hey guys....there are 96 subjects
Yes, there are 96 different subjects....and, one variation....Bobby Byrne (St. Louis) and 2nd card of Byrne
identifying him with Pittsburg (traded August 1909). In my opinion....the change in teams for Byrne narrows down this set to a 1910 issue ? If it was a 1912 issue, as catalogued, there would not have been any reason to issue two cards of Byrne. Your thoughts, gentleman ? ? TED Z |
#38
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Looking for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these rare T215 cards ?
Also, the Pirate set has both versions of Harry McIntyre....Brooklyn....and Brooklyn & Chicago cards. He was traded
on April 13, 1910, which further suggests that the Pirate cards were printed and issued sometime in 1910. Furthermore, throughout the set, there are other T206 fronts from the 350-only series and from the 350/460 series, implying that there might have been two printings. And therefore, two issues of these Pirate cards. TED Z |
#39
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I guess my question wasn't a valid one ?
Clayton |
#40
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Ted
that makes sense-96 subjects and a variation of one of the subjects makes a 97 card checklist. Clayton-the reason for thinking there is a Cobb- is top tier HOFer and there is a t215 Red Cross so why not a t215 Pirate.
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T206Resource.com |
#41
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Searching for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these extremely rare "T215" cards ?
Clayton
Ball, Crandall and Hartsel are confirmed cards in this Pirate set. Conroy & Latham have not yet to be confirmed in the Pirate set....and, may not exist if the Pirate issue is indeed a 96-card set. The where-abouts of Mr. Cobb still remains a mystery ? TED Z Last edited by tedzan; 05-06-2010 at 06:49 PM. |
#42
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Jim Rivera......et al
Jim
Regarding your...."that makes sense-96 subjects and a variation of one of the subjects makes a 97 card checklist." That set in Legendary Auctions actually has 95 different subjects. The Bobby Byrne (Pittsburg) variation is the 96th card in their listing. Therefore, if we assume that the Pirate set consists of 96 different cards, then there remains a vacancy for a Cobb. TED Z |
#43
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Thanks JimR and TedZ. I'm not saying there isn't a Cobb/Pirate, just was thinking if there was a Cobb/Pirate T215, what about the other Type 1's that aren't confirmed with the Pirate back-would we also assume they are out there also? That's all.
I may be going off of an old out dated checklist (Mr.Lipset's Vol.3,original print),,,so I see in here that: There is a Ball,Boston Amer. Pirate,,,,,,,,,,and a Ball,Cleveland Type 1 A Crandall,N.Y. Nat'l Pirate,,,,,,,,,,and a Crandall,New York Nat'l Type 1 And a Hartsel,Phila.Amer. Pirate,,,,,,,,,,and a Hartsel,Toledo Type 1 Anyhow,I don't want to come across as argumentative or anything,I'm just trying to understand,and I do appreciate the response and help. It would be awesome to find such a card,the Cobb/Pirate T215. I just wondered if that would mean the other unconfirmed Pirates should have a Type1 partner also,,and vice versa. Sincerely,Clayton Last edited by teetwoohsix; 05-06-2010 at 09:49 PM. |
#44
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Quote:
I'd be interested to know: a) If there is also a T215-1 Red Cross with the Brooklyn & Chicago caption (which would indicate a caption change during the print run OR two separate print runs). b) If the Pirate back version has Brooklyn & Chicago in the caption, or just Chicago.
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craig_w67217@yahoo.com |
#45
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Well Craig,I'm glad you brought this up.I don't have the answer,but looking at the checklist I'm using (as stated above in my last post),it says this:
McIntyre, Chicago Amer.,,,,Pirate back T215 McIntyre, Bkln. and Chicago Nat'l ,,,,Pirate back T215 McIntyre,Chicago Nat'l ,,,,,Type 1 T215 Is there a T215 McIntyre with just a Brooklyn only designation? Sincerely,Clayton |
#46
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Hey Clayton,
I suppose I should have checked my Lipset Vol 3 first before posting. Looking at it now, it agrees with what you posted in regard to McIntyre. But since the copyright date is 1986, there may have been new finds since. Best Regards, Craig
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craig_w67217@yahoo.com |
#47
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PIRATE set Checklist....Updated
Too much guesswork going on here. Here's the checklist of the Pirate set of 96 cards (plus the Byrne variation).
To date, no Cobb (Red portrait....or, Bat off shoulder version) has been confirmed. My theory is that there was at least two press runs. One in 1910 and the 2nd in 1911. Check-out the following trades........ Buck Herzog.......from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911 Miller Huggins.....from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910 Matty McIntyre....from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911 Rebel Oakes.......from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910 Frank Smith........from Boston AL to Cinci on May 11, 1911 Ames (hands above head) Baker Ball Bender Bridwell (portrait-cap) M. Brown (Chicago) Byrne (St Louis) Byrne (Pittsburg) Camnitz Chance (yellow portrait) Chase Collins (A's) Crandall (portrait-cap) Davis (A's) Crawford (bat) Cree Devore Donlin (bat) Doolan (fielding) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Doyle (portrait) Doyle (bat) Dubuc Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding) Evans Evers (bat-yellow sky) Ford Fromme Griffith (bat) Groom Herzog (New York, Nat'l) Hartzell Hoblitzell Hofman Howard Huggins (portrait, St Louis Nat'l) Huggins (hands/mouth) Hummell Jennings (one hand) Jennings (both hands) Johnson (pitching) Kelley Konetchy (glove low) Krause Lajoie (bat) Lake Leifield (bat) Lord Magee (bat) Marquard (portrait) Marquard (pitching) Mathewson (dark cap) McGinnity McGraw (portrait-cap) McGraw (glove) Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago Nat'l) Matty McIntyre (Detroit) Matty McIntyre (Chicago, Amer.) McLean Merkle (throwing) Meyers Miller Mitchell (Cinci) Mowery Mullin (bat) Murray Murphy (bat)........................UNCERTAIN Oakes (St Louis, Nat'l) Oldring (bat) O'Leary (hands/knees) Paskert Pelty (vertical) Purtell Quinn Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (bat) Schaefer Schulte (back view) Frank Smith (Cinci) Sheckard (glove) Speaker Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street Summers Sweeney (New York) Tannehill (Chicago) Thomas Tinker (bat) Wagner (bat on right) Warhop Wheat Willetts Wilson Wiltse (portrait) Wiltse (throwing) Any inputs are appreciated ? TED Z Last edited by tedzan; 05-07-2010 at 09:37 AM. |
#48
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Hi TedZ,
Thanks for the updated Pirate checklist,I do appreciate the time and effort you put into that-thank you. Of course,as usual,I'm a little confused about something.In post #38,you said there is a McIntyre Brooklyn and a McIntyre Brooklyn & Chicago.Did you mean to say Chicago and Brooklyn & Chicago instead? Or is there a McIntyre Brooklyn? Also,confusing me even more,in the checklist you just produced,you say there is a McIntyre Detroit? Maybe you are just messing with me ,,,,,but if not-please clarify? Thanks, Clayton |
#49
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Searching for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these extremely rare "T215" cards ?
Clayton
Would I be "messing with you" ? .....Not in at all The Detroit listing is of Matty McIntyre. In my prior post I mis-stated McIntyre (Brooklyn)....it should have been Matty McIntyre (Chicago Amer.) I will edit my checklist to add their first names. Regards, TED Z Last edited by tedzan; 05-07-2010 at 09:41 AM. |
#50
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Thanks TedZ.I'm having great fun with this,,and I know I can be a pain in the butt-thank you for your patience.
So,I've now added Matty McIntyre,Detroit to the updated list,as well as: M.Brown,Chicago,,,,,and Byrne,St.Louis Thanks again!! Sincerely,Clayton |
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