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#1
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While your point is relevant, it's hardly dispositive. If Joe was such a rising star incapable of omission, why does he have no t202 side panel of his own?
Also, it is remarkably coincidental that the players on the side panels of the card in question were Lord and Tannehill, the two players involved in the play cited in the newspaper photo. Your hypothetical is interesting, though, insofar as it mentions Wagner. I would suggest that no, they wouldn't necessarily identify Wagner if he was the one sliding. As we know, the ATC did not have Wagner's permission to use his likeness and/or such permission was withdrawn. It may very well be that they did not have Shoeless' permission either. The use of a generic action photo that does not claim to be him by name would likely not be considered an improper use, and the newspaper's identification of him by name is of course a permissible use. I just noticed that Greg mentioned the same thing about use of a player's image. That may have alot to do with the caption making no mention of the runner's name. |
#2
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Because he didn't have a T205. Since the side panels share images with that former set he could not be included on the side panel as was not in the T205 set.
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#3
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that is not entirely true. Walter Blair and Joe Wood are found in t202 and not t205. It could be argued that If Shoeless was so important, he would and could have merited his own side panel.
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#4
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Todd I apologize as I missed the inclusion of those two. That makes the case for Joe much more fascinating in this issue. Other players are not included on the side panels however they are mentioned by name in the center panel descriptions. This set, Joe's images, and his lack of mention are an enigma.
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#5
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At least one of the photos in the T202 set was taken by Conlon. When his photos are re-printed the player's rights aren't bought to re-print the photo. The photographer's rights are. So if this were simply a photo of Jackson, and not a "card" of Jackson's, which would mean adding him to a side panel and making him a part of the set, then why would they have to buy the rights to use his name as an identifier for who appears in a photo?
I'm not saying Jackson wasn't a part of the T202 set because he wasn't a star, and I'm not disputing the fact that he most likely didn't sell the rights to his image for inclusion in a set. But I'm not so sure you would need his permission to list him as appearing in a photo. Unless of course, he doesn't appear in the photo. For example, Harry Davis is pictured shaking hands with John McGraw in a center panel and is identified. However, he does not appear in the set. Are you saying they had to buy Davis' rights to identify him in a photo and then didn't print a card of his as well? Seems highly unlikely. The only logical conclusion in my mind is that the card does not depict Jackson. Last edited by packs; 06-30-2010 at 10:14 PM. |
#6
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I do not follow your Conlon analogy. Conlon also took virtually all of the portrait shots used in the E254 Colgan set. Are you suggesting that Colgan needed only to buy Conlon's permission to crop and use these photos, and not the players? I very much doubt that. |
#7
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I have a question. The Fatima T200 cards were produced in the same factory, Factory 25 District 2 VA as the T206 cards and Jackson appears and is identified in the team photo. Did the same company that owned the rights to the T206, T205 and T202 sets also have the rights for the T200 set?
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#8
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The T200 set was produced after the ATC break and at that time Fatima was a Liggett & Myers product.
Prior to that I believe all of the others were ATC issues. The more knowledgeable experts will correct me if I'm wrong. |
#9
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There may also be a more simple explanation as to why Joe (if it is him) is not identified in the photo. The caption was focused on Lord, with the write-up on him and his history. Although the text might have been added in late 1911, the photo may have been selected for inclusion much earlier--we know that most of the photos for end panels were around in 1910 or earlier. If the center photo were picked at a time when Joe Jackson was still a relative unknown quantity--say the first month of his first full season in 1911, which incidentally, is when the game was played that is included in the newpaper, there would be even less reason to identify Jackson. It is possible that there was no notation of who the runner was, and that when the text was finalized later, no one bothered to identify him.
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#10
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My argument against that would be that the photo Greg found that matches the center panel is from a game in July. By that time Joe wasn't an unknown and center panel photos are included in the set up to the World Series that year. It makes no sense to me not to mention Joe unless it was a contractual situation. I find it hard to believe that the photographer would have marked his notes as the photo taken being of Lord and not also included Joe Jackson.
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#11
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The game in the photo that identifies Jackson was from May 5, 1911. The teams played 4 games around then, 4 at the end of June (into July 1) and 4 in September. Unless it came from the last four game set, the photo was taken before half-way through Joe's first season. Now if they waited until year end to go through all sorts of photos, then I see your point. But if they already had decided on Lord and that photo earlier, I can see where the captioner would not necessarily have had reason to go back and check on the identity of the baserunner.
EDITED TO CHANGE: the September series was only three games, not four Last edited by nolemmings; 07-01-2010 at 10:05 AM. |
#12
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We may be talking about two different photos and center panels. I was referencing the photo that started this thread. Greg found the companion photo for "Lord Catches His Man" in a newspaper photo from July.
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