Shanus-REA suit

[Robert_Lifson]

We have no fancy PR firm (and don’t need one) and I can’t discuss details of a lawsuit that is filed against me because it just isn’t done, but I can assure any and all that this has NO merit and at least I can post the link:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...sold_him_.html


We only learned of this “suit” late last night. Our attorney Barry Kozyra provided this statement (too late to be included in the story but maybe it will be updated, have no idea):

"Robert Edward Auctions, LLC and Robert Lifson deny the allegations of the Complaint filed by Corey Shanus. The Complaint contains numerous misstatements of fact and inaccuracies as Mr. Shanus must know as well as false suppositions. The Complaint is frivolous as a matter of law and REA and Mr. Lifson will seek full redress through the courts for damages, attorney fees and costs from Mr. Shanus and anyone acting in concert with him or on his behalf."


Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

Robert Edward Auctions LLC

[Rich Klein]

With Leon's new rules.

My only comment is that knowing both parties, granted I know Rob better and for a longer time than Corey, this gets worked out. I agree with the future posts after I wrote this, I'm rooting for the truth to come out and win.

Regards
Rich

[JamesGallo]

Who in the world wrote that. They need some spelling and grammer checks cause even I saw words missing and words spelled wrong. Pretty bad when your running a story like this and it makes me feel like the person who wrote the story didn't have a clue about anything.

I know I have read about some Nash stuff in the past and really can't comment on the claims. I hope the matter can be resolved quickly as we have enough drama around this hobby already.

James G

[calvindog]

"when you're running a story like this ...."

[chaddurbin]

i'm conflicted...usually there's a clear bad guy i root against in these cases. so i'm rooting for the truth here.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

"when you're running a story like this ...."

lol

[caramelcard]

I'm rooting for "hin."

[slidekellyslide]

Haulsofshame.com had breaking news in my email today...surprisingly it wasn't this story.

[oldjudge]

Dan-That link was already posted in the Goodwin thread. Pretty busy news day for a quiet hobby.

[Kawika]

Never a dull moment.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Dan-That link was already posted in the Goodwin thread. Pretty busy news day for a quiet hobby.

Wow...looks like I have some catching up to do. I pretty much stopped reading that thread when it went to the Peck and Snyder discussion.

[milkit1]

If there's 1 thing I have learned in this business is not to trust somebody who has a song called pop goes the weasel

[Michael Peich]

At least Charlie Sheen no longer collects.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by milkit1

If there's 1 thing I have learned in this business is not to trust somebody who has a song called pop goes the weasel

Not trying to pick on the guy, but if you think Pop Goes the Weasel was bad(sadly, I still kinda like the song), you should check out Gas Face. It's absolutely horrendous, and to make matters worse, it has Gilbert Gottfried in the video.

[ls7plus]

This story reminds me of why I don't collect memorabilia, aside from a few game-used (?) bats. Purely in the abstract, and not taking sides with either party here, there are just too many times where big bucks are paid for what turns out to be nothing more than a story. Stories are almost always subject to dispute. Joe Jackson game-used uniform, anyone? I certainly would not even begin to question Rob Lifson's character, and I don't know Corey at all, let alone well enough to even begin to comment on the particulars here. The prior poster was right: Let's just root for the truth to come out!
Secondly, is anyone suprised to see that O'Keeffe is the author of this piece? This gentleman has made it abundantly clear in his book, "The Card," that he doesn't understand the attractibility of the collectibles our hobby is founded upon, and his dedication to pressing (pun intended) his perspective upon everyone else he can reach is beyond rationale dispute.

Larry Smith

[DanP]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

This story reminds me of why I don't collect memorabilia, ...

Larry Smith

I'm with you Larry; I have some autographed balls, jerseys, etc. but nothing I spent enough $ on to upset me if I found out they were fake.

After reading the article all I could do is picture six experts being called, all with different "expert" opinions on the dates (kind of like the experts on the economy, stocks and the weather).

Dan Paradis

[WhenItWasAHobby]

..... for me adds a little perspective to the issue at hand.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ash/index.html

Key quote from the article:

For all its many upstanding, passionate collectors, the baseball-memorabilia subculture is also a notoriously seedy shadowland of Mametesque schemers and dreamers, thick with forgeries and thefts, conflicts of interest, dubious "authenticators," shill bidding, card doctoring and any number of other dubious practices. "The hobby is mostly filled with low-life hucksters, some of whom grow up to own important auction houses," says a longtime collector of early baseball material. "You can count the number of people who are smart and educated and honest on one hand."

[49leaf]

I do hope this works itself out. But oh my from rapper to baseball historian expert etc. LOL!

[Hankphenom]

"The hobby is mostly filled with low-life hucksters, some of whom grow up to own important auction houses," says a longtime collector of early baseball material. You can count the number of people who are smart and educated and honest on one hand."

This statement is patently absurd, and offensive. This hobby/business if full of smart, educated, and honest collectors and dealers. I doubt the percentage of bad apples is any worse than any other field: politics, law, religion, finance, medicine, etc., and probably a good deal cleaner than many.
Hank Thomas

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

"The hobby is mostly filled with low-life hucksters, some of whom grow up to own important auction houses," says a longtime collector of early baseball material. You can count the number of people who are smart and educated and honest on one hand."

This statement is patently absurd, and offensive. This hobby/business if full of smart, educated, and honest collectors and dealers. I doubt the percentage of bad apples is any worse than any other field: politics, law, religion, finance, medicine, etc., and probably a good deal cleaner than many.
Hank Thomas

Hank, I can assure you that there is a higher percentage of people in the hobby/business with criminal records than there are in the field of politics, law, religion, finance and medicine.

[19cbb]

Collector sues over 'foul balls'

By BRUCE GOLDING

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...iFWJ3fGZPM9IMK

A baseball-memorabilia collector is crying foul.

Corey Shanus, a Westchester lawyer who has amassed a treasure trove of artifacts from the national pastime, filed a $600,000-plus fraud suit yesterday against a dealer he claims duped him into buying two fake balls.

The Manhattan federal lawsuit says Shanus relied on expert advice from Robert Lifson of Robert Edward Auctions before bidding on two "trophy balls" purportedly from the 1800s.

But Shanus says testing shows the balls contained a material introduced in the 1900s.

Barry Kozyra, a lawyer for Lifson, said called the suit "frivolous."

[mark evans]

Regardless of the percentage of crooks in the hobby, I've always understood the parties in this case, whom I don't know, to be two of the hobby's "good guys." For their sake and that of the hobby, I should hope for an amicable resolution.

With regard to criticism of O'Keeffe, he's a journalist publishing a story he believes to be of public interest. He owes the hobby only the duty of getting it straight.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Writing headlines for the New York Post must be one of the best jobs there is. Still an all-time favorite from way back when: "Reds' Brezh Dead."

[ls7plus]

Kudos to Dan Markel for a great, informative post. Boy, what a mess!

Jeff and I are both lawyers, with my understanding being that he's been quite successful in trying some very tough, high profile cases, and I applaud him for that, while I focus primarily on rather routinely handling some high dollar appeals in the Michigan appellate courts and US Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in Cinncinatti. However, I've seen some real scam jobs and out and out criminal behavior in the practice of law also, present company most definitely excepted. I've posted before about studying the area of coin collecting for a period of more than 20 years, because I think that its 120-year head start as an organized hobby over ours gives a reasonably accurate preview of what ours is likely to go through (collectors thinking patterns seem remarkably similar, whatever their focus). Coins have also experienced a huge number of frauds and scammers over time. I think its just indigenous to human nature whenever big $$$ are out there.

Our hobby will overcome and survive, however, just as other fields of endeavors have, although perhaps not without suffering many more black eyes along the way.

With respect to Mark's comments on O'Keeffe, I would respectively disagree. Although I read and enjoyed "The Card," and there is no question he writes well, I think there is little question he has an agenda to push, just as many writers in various fields do, and writes with an easily discerned animus towards the hobby. That said, participating in this hobby has always been caveat emptor, and most hobbyists thoroughly understand that. If they don't, heaven help them, as the unsavory characters lurking out there certainly won't.

Best to everyone,

Larry Smith

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Writing headlines for the New York Post must be one of the best jobs there is. Still an all-time favorite from way back when: "Reds' Brezh Dead."

"Headless body found in topless bar"

[Rich Klein]

"Morris the Cat goes to Heavenly Din-Din"

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

...With respect to Mark's comments on O'Keeffe, I would respectively disagree. Although I read and enjoyed "The Card," and there is no question he writes well, I think there is little question he has an agenda to push, just as many writers in various fields do, and writes with an easily discerned animus towards the hobby.

Perhaps if one were to open the door to O'Keefes bedroom closet, one might find stacks upon stacks of Joe Charboneaus, Ron Kittles, and Cory Snyders. Not to mention the boxful of Starting Lineups in the back.

Mike

[Peter_Spaeth]

Tiger Admits: I'm a Cheetah.

[calvindog]

Mike O'Keeffe is a solid reporter. I deal with NY reporters on a daily basis and Mike is as good as there is in the business. Sometimes reporters make you happy, some days they make you unhappy. All you hope for is a fair shake and Mike gives you that.

As for the claim that Mike has an agenda it really depends on one's perspective at the time -- just ask Doug Allen. When his lawsuit against Dave Forman was leaked to Mike I suspect Doug was a big O'Keeffe fan; after he got his ass handed to him and Mike reported it, Doug suddenly decided that Mike had it out for him.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Hank, I can assure you that there is a higher percentage of people in the hobby/business with criminal records than there are in the field of politics, law, religion, finance and medicine.

You can assure me? You can prove this? I'm guessing the percentage is about the same.
Hank

[calvindog]

Really? Lots of lawyers, doctors and financiers with felony convictions? Ever think that these individuals are often instantly barred from their professions if convicted of a felony?

Wouldn't it be easier for you to say "I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about?"

[jbsports33]

What a surprise! Seems like this will be happening more often now

I am hoping there will be a resolution in the near future, tough hearing things like this in a hobby that is made to be fun for everyone.

Jimmy

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's a hobby, sure, but one where many otherwise intelligent people are ruled by wishful thinking instead of common sense and caution; and that is just fine for those unethical folks on the selling side who take advantage of their misplaced trust.

[calvindog]

Just like our law practices!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Really? Lots of lawyers, doctors and financiers with felony convictions? Ever think that these individuals are often instantly barred from their professions if convicted of a felony?

Wouldn't it be easier for you to say "I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about?"

Wow. What kind of fantasy world do you live in, where there's no medicare fraud, no legal conflicts of interest, no unethical Wall Street behavior that drives the economy into the toilet? There's no criminal or antisocial behavior among the professional classes, is that what you're saying? And I don't appreciate the insult, either. How smart are you that you can't even carry on a civil conversation?

[drc]

If an MD loses his license for committing a felony that means he was committing a felony while a licensed MD.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Wow. What kind of fantasy world do you live in, where there's no medicare fraud, no legal conflicts of interest, no unethical Wall Street behavior that drives the economy into the toilet? There's no criminal or antisocial behavior among the professional classes, is that what you're saying? And I don't appreciate the insult, either. How smart are you that you can't even carry on a civil conversation?

Smarter than you. Yes there are tons of unethical behavior in the areas of law, finance, medicine. But to suggest that the amount of wrongdoers in these areas is the same as in the baseball card hobby is laughable. Look at the top auction houses: Heritage, Legendary, Memory Lane, Mile High. How many of the heads have either been convicted of fraud or are targets of federal grand juries?

And David, I can assure you that the percentage of doctors convicted of felonies is a tiny fraction of of a fraction of 1%. Want to bet it's higher in our hobby?

Finally, our hobby is completely unregulated, with no bodies of oversight -- unlike the areas of law, medicine, finance, etc. Doesn't that at least give you a slight clue as to the relative incidence of bad behavior?

[byrone]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Smarter than you. Yes there are tons of unethical behavior in the areas of law, finance, medicine. But to suggest that the amount of wrongdoers in these areas is the same as in the baseball card hobby is laughable. Look at the top auction houses: Heritage, Legendary, Memory Lane, Mile High. How many of the heads have either been convicted of fraud or are targets of federal grand juries?

And David, I can assure you that the percentage of doctors convicted of felonies is a tiny fraction of of a fraction of 1%. Want to bet it's higher in our hobby?

Finally, our hobby is completely unregulated, with no bodies of oversight -- unlike the areas of law, medicine, finance, etc. Doesn't that at least give you a slight clue as to the relative incidence of bad behavior?

Perhaps the SEC could regulate the hobby. They've done a bang-up job with their current mandate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That's what we need, a trade association!! Oh wait, don't we have one already?

[calvindog]

Brian, yes, as soon as Madoff gets out of prison perhaps the SEC can take over Marshall Fogel's watchdog group. They've done such a bang-up job in the 8 months they've been protecting us from the bad guys in the industry. Is there any truth to the rumor that JP Cohen will take over the reins from Marshall in August?

[mark evans]

Back to O'Keeffe. No problem with having an honest and civil disagreement but I honestly don't see how anyone can reliably determine his motives. If I had to speculate, I should think they are more along the lines of selling papers and advancing his career than an animus toward the hobby [Whatever would be his reason?]. In any event, it makes no difference to me inasmuch as, in my view, he owes the hobby only truthful reporting.

In other words, I don't think any journalist has an obligation of "balanced" reporting. One is free to write of the more positive features of our hobby, and I should hope some would. I suspect, though, that such reporting sells fewer papers.

[bijoem]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Wow. What kind of fantasy world do you live in, where there's no medicare fraud, no legal conflicts of interest, no unethical Wall Street behavior that drives the economy into the toilet? There's no criminal or antisocial behavior among the professional classes, is that what you're saying? And I don't appreciate the insult, either. How smart are you that you can't even carry on a civil conversation?

I just wanted to stick my nose into this conversation to say.....

Hank is one of the nicest guys I have met in this hobby - and I (like everyone else should) look forward to stopping by his table whenever he is at a show. Not knowing Hank's circle of friends in the hobby..... I could only guess that he already knows who can be avoided and has surrounded himself with other nice, intelligent, and honorable hobby participants.

I would also love to come up with some sort of lawyer-joke-zinger to throw into this thread...... but I fear a Taddy retort would put me (understandably) on the losing side of the exchange.

[Bill Stone]

All I know is I am anxiously awaiting the REA catalog on or about April 12.

[mark evans]

A final (?) thought on the trade association, as the subject seems to continue to crop up on the Board. I'm obviously "odd man out" in assuming there exists sufficient integrity among the majority of auction houses (and dealers) to make such an association beneficial to collectors.

I will confess to being biased as, given the right circumstances, I wouldn't mind being considered for a position in the hobby. [As this has not developed, I have instead turned to teaching, and now a group of unfortunate students in Alexandria, Va, must suffer through my course in legal writing.]

Having said that, I fail to see the downside to such an association, although I recognize that others might argue that it would offer a patina of legitimacy to a corrupt enterprise. "Everyone" agrees that law enforcement, at both the federal and state level, has insufficient resources to police the hobby effectively. Just look at how long it's taking the FBI to conduct the Mastro investigation. And, civil litigation is too costly and cumbersome except to resolve high-dollar disputes.

While a system of self-policing would no doubt be imperfect, it seems to me that if it comprises honest people invested with sufficient authority, and if the costs are borne by the industry and not passed on to collectors, then collectors stand nothing to lose by offering their support.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And how would you insure that this group was made up of honest auction houses and dealers? Who would be the judge of that?

[Boomer]

I will stand with Rob on this one.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And how would you insure that this group was made up of honest auction houses and dealers? Who would be the judge of that?

Well, I was thinking of changing my last name to Landis...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Boomer

I will stand with Rob on this one.

You can stand with whomever you want to, doesn't matter to me, but you need to have your full name here or edit your comment out. Nothing personal and I am not taking sides. Also, you are one of the few users that registered the first 2 days of our new software and I need your USER ID, First and Last Name and day time ph# that will be called to verify, sent to me as a PM or to leonl@flash.net. Otherwise you will not be able to post anymore. It's just the rules and nothing personal. thanks

[uniship]

I was in UT last week and it was so cold, I actually saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.


now, back to your regular scheduled programming.

[tbob]

Puhleeze, we have all heard all the lawyer jokes