1927 Yankees team ball forgery

[JeremyW]

I respect your honesty David. Unfortunately, many would have consigned the ball to the next major auction house's auction & walked away.

[GKreindler]

I'm really sorry to hear that, David.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

I respect your honesty David. Unfortunately, many would have consigned the ball to the next major auction house's auction & walked away.

The thought did cross my mind!

[JeremyW]

It would have crossed my mind also. I guess that's what separates the good guys from the bad guys.

[carrigansghost]

Admire your honesty and feel for your loss.

Rawn

[Leon]

Sorry to hear that David. It really sucks. You are a good man for not pawning it off. I try to live by "Karma" and yours is very good from that situation. All the best...

[barrysloate]

Can you get your money back David, or has it far passed that point? That is a very expensive baseball.

[David Atkatz]

I'm probably stuck, Barry. The ball was purchased from Superior Auctions in 2000. I don't think they're still in business.

Maybe I'll sue Spence.

[batsballsbases]

David,
Very sorry to hear that about the ball. My heart goes out to you as a fellow collector of yankees items. But as I have always said this is the reason why I stopped collecting anything autographed many years ago. Letters ,COAs, it doesnt really matter what you have but like I said unless you were there and it was signed in front of you there is NO expert that can say with 100% certainty its real. And like I said my heart goes out to you because its an expensive lesson to learn. You as a collector / expert were even fooled so what chance does a novice to advanced collector with extra $ stand? I think if every member on net 54 kicked in 10 dollars we could help you out of your problem! I will be the first to kick in my friend! Al

[David Atkatz]

Thanks for the offer, Al!

It is an expensive lesson, but that's life. As Tony Soprano would say, "Whadda ya gonna do?"

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

David,
Very sorry to hear that about the ball. My heart goes out to you as a fellow collector of yankees items. But as I have always said this is the reason why I stopped collecting anything autographed many years ago. Letters ,COAs, it doesnt really matter what you have but like I said unless you were there and it was signed in front of you there is NO expert that can say with 100% certainty its real. And like I said my heart goes out to you because its an expensive lesson to learn. You as a collector / expert were even fooled so what chance does a novice to advanced collector with extra $ stand? I think if every member on net 54 kicked in 10 dollars we could help you out of your problem! I will be the first to kick in my friend! Al

Sorry David....

Although I agree 1,000,000% with Al's quote (which I bolded).

Jeff

[travrosty]

it's a spence ball.

[earlywynnfan]

That really stinks. I'd love to know the person whose opinion you value so highly; is it perhaps a dealer we are familiar with? I know that's where I'd go with an item like this.

I've always desired a ball signed by Ruth, Wagner, or Johnson, but for me to spend so much, I'd want much more assurance than JSA or PSA can offer (and I am not trying to bash them in this instance.) This is why I go after obscure guys in my niche. With such a large collection, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if I have a bad one or two. But if I've fallen for a fake Bennie Huffman signed ball, well, I'm out 30 bucks.

I give you props for eating the ball instead of trying to recoup the money.

Ken

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I'd love to know the person whose opinion you value so highly...
Ken

It's our very own Jodi Birkholm.

[MVSNYC]

man, sorry david!

that is scary, i have seen you post images of that ball in the past, i would've sworn it was legit, those sigs look great. so what do you (or spence) claim happened? was this a blank vintage ball and one person forged all the sigs? or did it originally have a few legit ones on it, then the others were faked later?

[mark evans]

I share the above views, especialy those commending David for not attempting to sell the ball -- a 'mensch' as my grandmother would say.

I also agree with Al's comment: if an expert of David's skill and experience can be fooled, what chance do we novice collectors have?

Finally, although not my business, I hope David and Richard can bury the hatchet. Although I've never met either in person, both seem to be good and honest folks and assets to the hobby.

Mark

[batsballsbases]

Hi Mark,
I also wish that Richard and David can put an end to this. I have known Richard for 20+years from the White Plains shows and always found his knowledge of autographs to be first rate. Even thou he is one of the last 5 Met Fans left we must forgive him. I also have talked to David several times on the phone and find his knowledge of yankee items to be vast. Better to use your knowledge in a constructive way on the net54 that look like two children in a pissing contest where the last one standing wins! Do you know what I mean Boys! And David my friend Tony Soprano "wooda pulled out the gun and done some shootin" if you know what I mean.

[RichardSimon]

Mark,
Thanks for the kind words but I want to reply to the statements from a couple of people on this thread who are wondering how they can continue to collect when something like this baseball incident can fool some experienced people.
There are good dealers in this hobby. Those that are knowledgable about what they do. Of course not one of them can claim that they have never been fooled but if you can confine your purchasing to the "good guys" the chances are you can build a good collection which will be as close to 100% authentic as can be.
The good dealers that I know, and they don't use TPA, include Jim Stinson, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Rich Albersheim, Danny Cariseo, Jodi Birkholm and Kevin Keating. Phil Marx uses TPA and he is trustworthy also. These are knowledgable people and will always guarantee their material. I am glad to say that they are friends of mine too.
As far as auction houses go I have known the people at Lelands for a long time. I feel that they are the most knowledgable auction house people in the hobby when it comes to autographs. They are the only major auction house that I am aware of that does not need to use TPA.
Good luck.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

man, sorry david!

that is scary, i have seen you post images of that ball in the past, i would've sworn it was legit, those sigs look great. so what do you (or spence) claim happened? was this a blank vintage ball and one person forged all the sigs? or did it originally have a few legit ones on it, then the others were faked later?

Based on what I have learned, a ball like this in the hands of a young skilled forger would have started out on a blank ball. The person who did this was skilled enough to fool many people. It is possible he is still operating now.

[barrysloate]

I've got to say guys, and I will take some flack for this, but collecting autographs is one f**king miserable hobby. Every collecting field has to deal with some level of fraud- coins are cleaned, stamps are reperforated, baseball cards are trimmed- but the fraud in the autograph hobby is so off the charts I don't know how people can really enjoy it. And the idea that an autograph collector needs to educate himself may be somewhat true, but take David A., who has been studying Yankee memorabilia for decades. He certainly is at the top of the learning curve, yet look at this stinking mess. I have to think a 27 Yankee ball in that condition is worth well north of 50K, and his example is now worth exactly zero. Hobbies are supposed to be relaxing endeavors; I would need a regular supply of Xanax to deal with this shit. This is going to drive so many collectors out of autographs and will have a significant impact on its future. If somebody asked me the best way to get started in autograph collecting, I would tell him to collect hummels instead.