Too many off topics again....suggestions?

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Posted By: Silver King

I first found this site about 4 months ago searching for info on an N172 card and a Cabinet photo. I've been hooked ever since and log in at least twice a day. I have learned a lot of things yet I probably only know 1% of what I need to know. I actually enjoy just about every thread and those that don't interest me are easy to skip. I am not really interested in current baseball topics because that is too ordinary and discussed on sports center, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate an o/t discussion like a triple play. Like someone said in a prior response, I like other old memorabilia too, some of the tobacco items from way back are very cool and loosely tied to the same industry as baseball and I would like to see what other collectors collect in addition to their baseball cards. Bottom line, I like most of the threads but I can understand why some are too o/t for others.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Corey- I'm with Leon 100% here, and whenever we speak and you suggest a topic you want to start, I always tell you to go for it.

You asked if it would be a good idea to start a thread on your Peck & Snyders- for those who don't know Corey well he has five of them, including Jim Creighton- and I told you it would be a fabulous thread and draw tremendous responses. I'm still waiting....

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Yes, you have told me that. But here's the point. You will let me do it because of my participation on the board. What about the collector who now wants to frequent the board and discuss only memorabilia? Can he? My understanding is that he cannot. And because he cannot, not many memorabilia people frequent the board, the result being that the several threads I started on various memorabilia topics ended up generating little discussion. Then there's the aspect that, while of course I would like to start a thread about a memorabilia topic that would generate substantial interest and discussion, I would also like to read such threads started by others. Allowing me to post them but restricting others limits that possibility.

As to a thread about the Peck and Synders, I would love to do it. However, as I've mentioned, part of my inhibition is my lack of equipment and technical prowess in posting transparencies (e.g., I have transparencies of the five Peck & Synders) of the item(s) that would be the subject of a thread (and which would substantially enhance interest in the thread). Any help you or anyone could give me on this issue would be appreciated.

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Posted By: leon

If you posted on memorabilia before and it didn't get a lot of responses then maybe it was like my current (thankfully) revived E98 thread? With all due respect *(and there is a lot of it) I think you under estimate the 1150 folks a day who visit this board (we are up about 10% from 3-6 mos ago) and think there are many on here who do collect it. I do understand your point though and it's valid. Not saying I am going to change my view but yours is certainly valid. Also, I know you and I have spoken about me helping with the transperancy issue and thought you took that ball back in your court. I understand that is an issue....I will still help if you want me to but also understand hesitation on sending stuff through the mail. I hate to do it myself. All in good spirit.......leon

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Posted By: peter chao

You simply worry too much. I'm sure you've heard of freedom of speech. I'm probably as guilty as anybody for O/T posts, but I really don't worry about it too much. So far, Leon hasn't jumped on me, even though there were times when he probably should have.

Peter

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Posted By: chris bland

I dont think it can be summed up any better than what Quan wrote. I dont go to espn.com to read about Old Judge cabinets, and I dont come here to read about Baron Davis. Just one man's opinion...

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Posted By: Joann

I think the current policies are really quite good. But they could use a little more self-policing by the regulars. OT generally not allowed. Occasional exceptions for regular contributors. What could be more simple?

Well, maybe the word "occasional" could use some fine-tuning in some cases. Being a regular contributor isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card for OT posts, and I do agree there have been a whole lot of them lately. Even regulars need to restrict OT's to very occasionally.

This is where I think some self-regulation would help - don't make Leon jump in and be the bad guy because you think "occasionally" means "only a few times a week". It probably varies by person, but to me I figure it means maybe 2 times a year or something like that. Occasionally.

And the further off-topic, the more rare the post. It's kind of absurd to think that ca 1915 photos or tobacco packs are the same kind of OT as a 2006 game-used-whatever just because neither are technically vintage cards. C'mon.

And I really do think Leon should stick to his guns on the board being about vintage cards. I'm sure there are all kinds of topics that could be allowed to get more traffic. First vintage memorabilia, then game used, maybe autographs, and why not allow baseball cards up to about 1970 (which many consider "vintage")? I think the rigor in keeping it to vintage cards is what keeps the board lively and focused.

If there really is that much demand for other topics, it seems that there would be enough demand to devote a separate site to it and keep it active. Look what Tom Boblitt (hi tom) did - he created our "sister site" which is devoted to vintage non-sports cards, and it is a very active, fun and useful site. I don't know a lot about memorabilia or autographs (although I have to say memorabilia in general just fascinates me), but I guess I don't understand why they can't start a similar board.

lolol. So imagine a Net54 Vintage Baseball Card board, a Net54 Vintage Non-Sports, a Net54 Vintage Baseball Memorabilia board, a Net54 1945-1970 Baseball Card Board - heck, maybe even a Net54 Vintage Sports Cards: non-Baseball. All of our little cities could provide links to each other and grow up to be a state or something.

Seriously though - I think the Vintage Non-sports board is the model to follow to create a place for those that have interests that parallel those this board, but are nonetheless OT here.

Joann

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Posted By: peter chao

Why don't we just divide this board into two. A board which discusses Prewar Vintage Cards and an O/T board where I can discuss Baron Davis.

Peter

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Posted By: barrysloate

What about a board for those who both collect vintage cards and also waste too much time watching Seinfeld reruns (and committing them to memory)?

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Barry,
Sign me up.... It would be a board about "Nothing".....

Be well Brian

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Posted By: peter chao

Barry,

In the O/T board we could discuss everything tangential to the main board. So we can discuss both Seinfield and Baron Davis. It's a simple solution Leon, and hopefully won't deprive you of needed rest...

Peter

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Posted By: Eric B

There probably isn't a whole much more stuff to say that hasn't been said before.

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Posted By: MIke

What is the site for memorablia?

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Posted By: peter chao

Or simpler yet, we all put 0/T in the message title for O/T posts. And if we don't do it, then Leon in his discretion can insert O/T.

Peter

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Posted By: leon

I think one thing does need to be stated that might not have been. Just because you put O/T in the message title of the thread does not give you carte blanche to do them. IF anyone is doing more than about 1 a month it's really too much....even if you are me .....can there be an exception? Sure....but remember if you are doing more than about 1 a month then it's probably too much....Maybe this will take a little of the gray area out of the, on purpose, not strict rule.......regards



edited to change my view in frequency of OT's from a week to a month...

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Mike, here's the url for the memorabilia site:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5

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Posted By: Alan

I agree with Corey. I would like to see more memorabilia related threads.

Alan

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Back in the day, quite a few days ago, I occasioned upon a beer bar which was pleasant, had a real pot belly stove for heat, free (very long) shuffleboard, free snacks and sandwiches (I said it was in the past). I guess that I went back there several times. Nobody ever asked the proprietor "Why don't you offer wine" because they knew the answer "this is a beer bar".

Nobody asked for whiskey, grape juice, watermellon, knishes, sauerbraten, kool-aid, etc. Do you know why?

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Leon,

You say there are 1150 viewers a day if even 2% had O/T threads a day that's half the first page. I think if we could go a week without O/T threads it would settle the numbers down, than it wouldn't look like they are par for the course.

Asd stated before, I think the restraint needs to be on the posters.

I also believe memorbilia should be on here. I would prefer that autographs and "game used" equipments that requires provinance not be on the board. Threads like the notebooks are great.

Lee

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Posted By: jay behrens

Barry, the other board was started by Scott Elkins. Lee and I are just moderators on the site. So far, the only moderating I've had to do is the deletion of a few of Scott's posts, lol.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: leon

You are absolutely correct. There really are 1150 or more folks on the board everyday...at least lurking. I should have said anymore than 1 OT a month is TOO MUCH...and it should really be less....I was being too lenient. As for the memorabilia I can live with a little bit of that..but only the pre war stuff as it's on some of our cards too. I could give a rats patoot about the newer game used stuff.....That will never be allowed on the board unless it's an extraordinary circumstance...best regards

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Posted By: martin dalziel

I've not read all the posts in this thread, so if I'm repeating somethings thats already been said then apologies up front.

I emailed Leon last night about this topic. I'm not saying I was the genesis of the thread but certainly he and I share the same view.

My perspective - basically Quan hit the nail on the head. This is not some sports bulletin board. If people want to share views on Schillings bloody sock, Cepeda's drug problems, the NBA playoff's, Yogi Berra cards, tomorrow nights fight, politics, etc. there are plenty of places to go do that. This isn't it.

I come here to learn about pre-war (WWII) cards and their related history, and that includes vintage photos, cabinet cards, etc. I've got other avenues to go chat about current sports events and post-war cards and their histories and thats where I go.

Regarding the suggestion to email the posters of threads that aren't what this board is about, I tried that and while I got a respectful response it did nothing.

Just one man's opinion.

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Posted By: Rick

I'm going to miss the Al Rosen bashing threads.

Rick

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Posted By: Joe D.

I think you are doing a great job keeping proper balance on this site.

Honestly - I don't mind the OT threads nearly as much as the bickering threads.

And the OT threads usually come with a warning in the title "OT"... so they are easy to ignore.

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Posted By: greg

Just for clarification for what I was saying in the first place, as once again, it has been twisted and misinterpreted...

This is a pre-war site, so "Memorabilia" would be pre-war....not Schilling's bloody sock or a batting helmet from 2004. "Game Used" isn't a bat from 2005, it's a bat from 1915.

And Lee...first you say that memorabilia is better served on another site: "This board has morph from it's focus. What you are looking for can be better achieved on the other board you mwntioned. Try there."
Then you say you would like to see it on here in a later post. Huh?

I realize I'm not one of the popular girls sitting at the popular table in the school cafeteria like the rest of the "regulars" on here, so what I'm saying will be swept under the rug, but what I do think I am is one of the guy's Corey was referencing when he stated that you would get more imput about baseball during the pre-war period if other interests weren't intentionally stiffled. That's why I suggested a seperate link for Baseball History and "Memorabilia" (that's a crappy word - I prefer artifacts)

For whatever it's worth...

Greg

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Posted By: Joann

Greg,

I respectfully disagree, and not because of any measure of popularity of any poster. This is not a "pre-war site", as you put it. It's not even a pre-war baseball site. It's a Pre-WWII baseball cards site, as indicated in boldface text in the very first line at the top of the main page.

Joann

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Posted By: mr. moses

and made it O N L Y specifically about the cards, were diligent in enforcing it, restricted any and all banter and occasional chatter, and deleted any posts that didn't follow that exact criteria........ IMHO you would eventually have a VERY limited group posting mostly for themselves (1100 hits a day facilitates the growth of the participating pool which in turn allows for the presentation of more facts which then allows for more knowledge...... well you know the drill) and the board would eventually fade into obscurity. In general it appears to me that the evidence is that the forum is growing (according to Leon), which in turn suggests that these things aren't as abhorrent to most of the people as they are to the most vocal posters. Time after time I have heard people say they just move on to another thread if they don't like what is being said or how it is presented.
I know I have been guilty of a few OT posts and responses. It was inadvertent and I offer that I just didn't know better which is no excuse; just an explanation. I have never posted or even gone into a chat room - forum before. There was no ill will behind it and after reading some of the posts and responses directed to me I'm going to try and not do so.
Defining ALL the parameters for discussion is difficult and I would think that the occasional reminder from the moderator to try and keep more posts on the topic of ****pre-WW2 baseball cards**** is sufficient. Just look at the last 20+ new threads. Without having read them all - they appear to be on the money (so to speak).....

(Edited because it just didn't read right-maybe it still doesn't-ugh)
(Edited because Barry said spelling counts)

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Posted By: barrysloate

Spelling only counts a little; knowledge trumps it!

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Personally, I've felt in looking back through the historical forum posts (I have about 60 pages to go) that the board has always been about vintage pre war cards (or pre Topps to be a little more accurate) for the most part but also the players that are on those cards and the ephemera of the game itself. I like to see the related memorabilia on here and like some of the biographical stuff as well. Some of the tobacciana posts I find relevant as well, even if not 100% on topic.

I will say the tone of the posts (or responses to posts that may inadvertenly or overtly render an insult)in the past was more civil than it has been here over the last 2 months. That really jumps out at me as I travel back in time on Net 54. And there has been a huge turnover in board members over 6 years.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Break the rules and it's no posts for you--one week!

Seriously, a little self-policing is all that's needed here. I think Leon's idea of one a month at most is great.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's also the degree of O/T that should be considered. Making an observation about Cap Anson's life away from baseball is different than asking if one thinks Barry Bonds takes steroids. At least one relates to the 19th century game, while the other is irrelevant to this board.

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Posted By: peter chao

Two Ideas I really like are one self-policing so that we post O/T only once a month. And if poster doesn't do it then Leon should. Secondly, I like the idea of putting O/T in the message title.'s

The whole thing is once there are too many O/T's in the message title, people will think that it's alright for everybody to make more O/T posts.

Peter

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Posted By: mr. moses

you and I on same page. I too am reading the posts from page 311 to the present and had some thoughts but when I solicited others to comment on the past five years there was little interest. So be it. We are what we are now and not what we used to be. Recently Tony Soprano remarked that "remember when is the lowest form of conversation".... While I disagree (especially in a forum) YOU tell him that! God while I love being bad; in this thread you can go OT about going OT...... Priceless.

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Posted By: ramramram

I didn't make through the whole thread so my apologies if this has been mentioned -

What about having a separate zone, like the BST, that people can post off topic subjects. Leon can also sweep any threads he considers off topic into this zone. That way you aren't locking any threads, just controling them. If people want to keep up a friendly banter, they can still do that. It is somewhat like the chat room but has the advantage of non-time sensitive responses.

Rob M.

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Posted By: Dan

Was I guilty of some picture taboo or was it one of the other Dan's?

Peter, of course you think that is a suitable solution. Get the clue man, you are one of the main reasons this O/T thing came up!!!!

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Posted By: greg

Rob,

I suggested that earlier in the thread. The best bet for talking memorabilia will be to go to:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/

Hope to see you there.

Greg

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Posted By: leon

This really shouldn't be the "best" place to talk memorabilia. I hope it's the best place to talk cards though....A little memorabilia, per the rules, is very cool and I and almost everyone else will enjoy it. I don't really care to start additional places on this forum for talking about other stuff....Nothing personal guys...I think Joann and Gilbert nailed it....as well as many, many others...Thanks to all for keeping this discussion civil. I truly hope the board polices itself....best regards

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Posted By: greg

Thanks for letting me air an opinion, Leon.

Memorabilia discussions are always civil and friendly. I can't ever remember an occasion when they aren't.

I just don't understand why people aren't interested in the uniform some player is wearing on a card (if in fact it's not an artist's interpretation), or a bat that's on his shoulder, but, hey, who am I to question.

I'll keep reading the posts. You'll probably never hear much from me again as there's not a heck of a lot to talk about overpriced and overvalued Red Sox cards (with the exception of a few postcards that I know, but those really aren't true cards, are they....)

All the best, and thanks again for hearing me out.

Greg

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Posted By: leon

You seem like a good guy. I always appreciate your posts....You said:

"I just don't understand why people aren't interested in the uniform some player is wearing on a card (if in fact it's not an artist's interpretation), or a bat that's on his shoulder, but, hey, who am I to question."


The answer is I/we do like this kind of stuff and are interested. This just isn't "the" place to talk about it (for the most part). Kind of like going to a fried chicken place for a hamburger. I love both but I don't go to KFC and ask for a cheeseburger. That's all....All collecting is fun and memorabilia can be talked about on here in small doses....and the way O/T stuff in much smaller doses.....take care now...

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Posted By: Anonymous

Thanks Leon,

You seem like a good guy too.

You really should lay off the KFC and the hamburgers though...

Trust me, that stuff aint good for you. <G>

And I never got to post a pic of my new Royal Rooters WS pin, bummer.

Nuf Ced. Have a great day.

greg

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Posted By: peter chao

Leon,

How about this idea, why don't we have about 3 threads on each page and designate them as the O/T threads. If there are fewer than 3 we will feel free to add an O/T. On the other hand if there are more than 3 we'll hold back.

And of course, we need a 4th O/T for Barry's Seinfeld jokes.

Peter

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Posted By: Joann

Peter,

I'm not sure I'm exactly following you in this and some of the other threads about OT.

First, there is a difference between an on topic thread that wanders offcourse and a thread that is started purely for the purpose of discussing something off topic. And some of them are way off topic. Boxing?

Leon's rules and guidelines have worked well here for a very long time. There are fairly regular "near topic" posts about autographs, post-WWII cards, memorabilia, photos, etc. Less occasionally there are completely OT posts, but they tend to be about major sporting events (usually a Super Bowl thread, a Kentucky Derby thread), etc and are almost always started by people that have been around here since before this was even the board. And once in a blue moon you get things completely non-sports related.

I guess I'm not quite sure why you are pushing this. In some ways it seems like you are falling just short of demanding some right to post whatever is on your mind at any given time. Or at least being very persistent.

These rules and guidelines have been in place and effective for a long time, and to be honest I don't think they will or should change just because a few newer people have appeared on the scene and would like to have things be different. Group assimilation never works that way.

You are a good poster here generally and I enjoy your presence in this forum. But I kind of wish you wouldn't try to take Barry's occasional Seinfeld references and make that an analogy as to why you should be able to post about boxing or basketball or other completely OT items that interest you. Barry has been in this hobby for decades, has contributed here regularly, and the occasional Seinfeld references tend to be one-liners that do not derail a topic. That's different. It just is.

Respectfully, because I do think you are a good addition to this board,

Joann

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Posted By: barrysloate

And to take it a step further, while we've had a few laughs identifying lines or scenes from Seinfeld, I think I'm getting tired of being the Seinfeld guy. Maybe somebody else would like to wear that crown for awhile.

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Posted By: Steve f

Okay, but only if I can post youtubees.

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Posted By: peter chao

Joanne,

Why didn't you tell me this thread was only a facade. That Leon never really intended to make any changes. That would have saved all of us a lot of trouble.

Peter

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Peter, the thread as posted by Leon is not a facade - you've merely misread it.
Leon is looking for suggestions on how to stop the off topics, and not ideas on how to create a balanced forum allowing a certain number. It may sound that way as Leon and many acknowledge OT's will happen, truth is they are not regarded favourably and hopefully supply only the odd zinger or comic relief - and not a regular discussion point.

I really like your breezy posting style and attempts to diffuse cantankerous clashing opinion, but changing the focus of this board is unwarranted. Truth is, if the forum became too chatty the glue that is the cardboard knowledge would quickly disappear and the boardwould become a CU copy. It's the uniqueness of the participants and their hobby knowledge that makes the site what it is.

You don't really want to change it, do you?



Daniel

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Posted By: peter chao

Daniel,

I know where your coming from. And all I did was make suggestions, I'm not demanding that Leon do anything. It just seems to me that when people see a lot of O/T posts their natural inclination is to post one of their own. We can reverse that by making O/T posts clearer and stating that it is the policy of this board to avoid O/T posts once we see a certain number on the front page.

It is a practical suggestion and I thought that's what Leon wanted.

Peter

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Posted By: Alan

A simple solution would be to create a "Net54 Vintage Baseball MEMORABILIA Forum". Same exact format as this one, but for memorabilia. I know there's a similar one mentioned earlier, but it's not the same look as this one (same logon & password) with the B/S/T area, links, etc,...

Alan

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I know nothing about how to set these types of forums up, but I would be interested in doing a Net54 memorabilia forum if someone showed me how. At the very least I could moderate it if someone set it up.

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Posted By: peter chao

Dan,

You don't know what your getting yourself into. Notice how Leon started looking like George after moderating this board for a while. Well, after a while you may resemble Kramer.

Peter