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#51
10-12-2009, 04:37 PM
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doug,
didn't realize the overpriced veterans are on multi-year contracts, i didn't include arroyo because i knew he still has a couple years left. todd, when are the twins going to cut bait on delmon young? when 2/3rd of your outfield for much of the year are offense-suppressing carlos gomez and young, it's amazing they still came back to win. i think a few guys played above their heads, cabrera and pavano made some key contributions after the trade...but the twins will be in trouble if they're the big moves this offseason. i thought dunn would've been a good fit in there to replace morneau, high hr/ops lf/1b/dh type but maybe the front office don't want a lefty-heavy lineup for next year. (disclaimer: i'm basing most of my opinions on watching the twins the last couple weeks in the playoffs...so i wouldn't know intricate details like nick punto is an overachieving scrappy hustling white version of david eckstein or delmon young is exceedingly lucky that's why they want him in the lineup) 
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#52
10-12-2009, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets
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#53
10-12-2009, 05:17 PM
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Tbob
Please look at your facts. The Twins have signed their first pick each year this century, and Cuddyer in 1997. Five of them, counting Cuddyer, made
the big team--Mauer, Perkins, Garza, and Span being the others--and the others are still in the organization. So give me a break when you say they don't build through the draft and that they're too cheap. Quan, you can't be serious about replacing an MVP like Morneau with Adam Dunn. Morneau made it to 30-100 playing with a cracked bone in his back for two months and missing the last, and unlike Dunn, can carry a glove. And whereas you see these guys as having played over their heads, I see most or all of them on the rise. Kubel is legit, Span may win a batting crown someday, and Mauer and Morneau are of course the real deal. BTW, Gomez no longer starts, so our OF about which you seem to worry is Span (8th in BA with 20 something steals), Cuddyer (once Morneau returns--(.276, 32 HR 94 RBI)) and Kubel (.300, 28 HR 103 RBI), along with Delmon and Gomez. As for Delmon Young, he is all of 24 years old, barely. He was A.L. co-player of the week the last week of the season (with Kubel). The last 18 games, when Morneau was officially put on the shelf and he got to play every day, Delmon was 30 for 81. That's .370 when every game was a must win, and oh, that's with 4 HR, 14 runs and 18 RBI batting sixth or seventh. That's roughly one-ninth of the season, projecting out at 36 HR, 126 R and 152 RBI. Now I wouldn't expect those numbers year long, but the guy is hardly a slouch slap hitter and can't be considered either a bust or on the downside of his career at 24. Also, whether it factored in or not, the poor guy lost his mother to cancer in May after a long illness, and just may not have had his act together the whole year.
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#54
10-12-2009, 06:50 PM
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i'm saying when morneau went down, dunn could've had in a trade (or waiver).
as for young, until he learns some pitch recognition and start taking walks, his hitting is a mirage. not sure if he'll develop some power, but a sub .800ops at a corner outfield spot is not going to cut it. for the twins' sake i hope he has a matt kemp-like breakthrough next year. Last edited by chaddurbin; 10-12-2009 at 06:51 PM.
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#55
10-12-2009, 07:04 PM
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Please look at your facts. The Twins have signed their first pick each year this century, and Cuddyer in 1997. Five of them, counting Cuddyer, made
the big team--Mauer, Perkins, Garza, and Span being the others--and the others are still in the organization. So give me a break when you say they don't build through the draft and that they're too cheap.> Perkins is horrible and will probably be released over the winter. Garza is gone thanks to Bill Smith's idiocy. I didn't say they didn't build through the draft, I said they overreach and draft "signable players" for a discount like the Revere kid who the ESPN announcers couldn't believe was taken in the first round. A 5-9 lefty who hits singles, just what the Twins need! (sarcasm)  "MLB Reports Resume: The Twins surprised the heck out of everyone when they drafted Revere with their first round draft pick in 2007, 28th overall. I immediately chastized the Twins for an overdraft for a player that I called, "Brett Gardner with a bigger paycheck." at the time. I figured that they were a little strapped for cash, and therefore picked a player that they could sign for below slot. Revere was projected as a 2nd round pick." This year they signed a pitcher who had an arm injury and fell like a rock down to the Twins. Thank God they DID sign him because he has potential. I guess the Twins got tired of signing the best players like Jason Varitek because they continually low-balled them. I had a player who played for me in American Legion ball who was drafted by the Twins and he got the typical Twins low ball offer. Only the A's are cheaper in their offers to draftees than the Twins. Todd, they are cheap. I love them too but their owners have long been known for their stingy ways.
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#56
10-12-2009, 07:12 PM
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well Quan
Morneau went down in September, so there was for all practical purposes nothing to do. More importantly and as noted, Cuddyer moved to first, Kubel to RF and Delmon to left, and all three were absolutely on fire the rest of the season. There can be zero bitch by Twins fans about production after Morneau went down, except of course for those who still somehow believe it is inexcusable for not beating the Yankees.
As I said, Delmon is on the upswing, ending the season very strong. What you see as his YEAR LONG and somehow permanent condition in terms of OPS is in my view the mirage, as he will improve. BTW, his OPS, as poorly as he played for the first half of the season--thereafter sitting for great lengths until Morneau got hurt-- is still comparable to what was done by Josh Hamilton, and was better than Alex Rios, Tigers Carlos Guillen and rookie (albeit older than Delmon) Clete Thomas, Vernon Wells and BJ Upton.
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#57
10-12-2009, 07:28 PM
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for goodness sakes tbob
I feel like James Carville when people bitch at him about the Clinton years. His response "What is it you didn't like, the peace or the prosperity?".
You whine that they don't pay, yet you complain that they grossly overpaid for Punto. You complain about GM Smith, who in two years won the division once and lost game 163 to get edged out in the other. You still haven't answered my earlier question, so let me rephrase: What player, what free agent, what signing or player move would have made squat's difference in this loss to the Yankees? Sit Punto, who hit over .400? Hire an arm who would have done better than the one run allowed by Blackburn or the two by Pavano? I know, since he got raked Nathan was the one who should never been allowed on the mound; you know, the guy who set the team record for saves. Maybe Kubel should have been benched--he was 1 for 14, no sense playing a guy with a .300 avg and 100 RBI. Could a blown save, a blown call and 17 men left on in Game 2 have had anything to do with it?. Do you really, truly believe that management cost us that series with the Yankees--that we were hopelessly outplayed? When the Twins win their next crown, the team will not be markedly different than the '87 and '91 squads, you can take that to the bank. In the meantime, keep us apprised of all the studly free agents that always seem to land in Boston, New York, LA and other large markets, never any one of about 20-25 other franchises, and keep convincing yourself that it's all the Pohlad's (and Bill Smith's) fault.
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#58
10-12-2009, 07:34 PM
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oh and
BTW, here are a few notes on Ben Revere, the lousy 2007 pick who's worse than Brett Gardner:
# Twins Minor League Player of the Week (May 9-16, 2008) # Twins Minor League Player of the Month (May 2008) # Midwest League All-Star (2008) # Midwest League Mid-season MVP (2008) # Midwest League Postseason All-Star (2008) # Midwest League Player of the Year (2008) # Midwest League Prospect of the Year (2008) # Baseball America High Class A All-Star (2008) # Sherry Robertson Award (Twins Minor League Player of the Year) (2008) # Florida State League Player of the Week (May 11-17, 2009) # FSL All-Star Selection (2009) # FSL Post-Season All-Star (2009)
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#59
10-13-2009, 10:34 AM
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Todd- At 5-9 and 160 lbs. Ben Revere will never be more than a .300 hitter who hits singles and doubles. He is a quick Jason Kubel with no power. Unless he morphs in to Kirby Puckett the Twins will continue to fashion the worst power hitting outfield in MLB. Span, Gomez, Young, Cuddyer and possibly Revere. Revere is also a lefty and Lord knows the Twins need right handed hitting. Morneau, Maurer, Kubel, Span, the core of the team all struggle against good lefties.
Bill Smith is way in over his head. You credit Smith for winning or almost winning the division the last 2 years. I'm sorry to see you have drunk the Kool-Aid. The AL Central was the weakest this year in all of baseball. The players who carried the team the last 2 years were acquired prior to Smith getting the job. You can't give him credit for any of these players. The ones he brought here were disasters until he hit it lucky with Pavano and to some extent, Cabrera. Yes the Twins are cheap. Yes they did overpay Punto whom I am convinced has a picture somewhere of Gardenhire and a farm animal, that is the only reason he plays. You mention his ALDS batting average. Good for him. What about his hitting barely .200 for most of the season and being ranked DEAD LAST among AL infielders when it comes to all batting categories. I bet the Yankee pitchers absolutely trembled when they looked in the dugout and saw Casilla, Tolbert, Buscher, Redmond and Morrales on the bench. Gardo is 2-12 in the post season since 2002. He is the most overrated manager in baseball.
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#60
10-13-2009, 04:09 PM
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More gibberish
I find this particularly laughable "Morneau, Maurer, Kubel, Span, the core of the team all struggle against good lefties."
Mauer hit. 345 against lefties. Span hit .330. Morneau hit higher against lefties than righties. Only Kubel struggled, hitting .243, so I guess you platoon a .300 hitting 28 HR 103 RBI guy. BTW, Cuddyer hit .307 and Young .310 against southpaws so yeah, I can see where we've got no chance there. Here's what, tbob. I'm gonna cheer for the Twins again next year, and history says they have a better than 50/50 shot of winning their division. I'm then gonna hope and pray they don't leave double-digit guys on base, blow two ninth innings and fall to a lowly ALDS opponent that wins 100+ games. I'll even pray that you get the job as GM, so I know we will be unstoppable. You, you will start your annual rant about June as to how such a pathetic organization should be allowed to exist, how their manager and GM should be canned, and how anyone with 2 IQ points could guide this team to annual World Series appearances. Along about now, regardless of how far the Twins go in post-season, the rant will re-appear, and, I suppose, if they win it all we will get a shoulda-swept post or something similar. Believe me, watching parts of 120 or so Twins games a year, I can properly be accused of having a biased perspective of things, but when it comes to drinking Kool-Aid, man that's you, not me. Last edited by nolemmings; 10-13-2009 at 04:11 PM.
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#61
10-13-2009, 05:23 PM
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It's very tough to win even if you spend big bucks. Team chemistry is the key and for some reason the Twins seem to gel very good when other teams don't. I think Gardy needs to get some credit for the clubhouse getting along, but at the same time you have to wonder how many careless errors happen if Tom Kelly was running the show. Girardi has done a great job this year keeping his players on the same page, especially with a headcase like Afraud and all the drama he brings. Derek Jeter is the best player born since 1960.
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#62
10-13-2009, 09:30 PM
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And Johnny, last year Girardi was nearly run out of town on a rail.
__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets
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#63
10-14-2009, 08:27 AM
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#64
10-14-2009, 03:42 PM
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I didn't say he was the worst manager in baseball, I said he was the most overrated. The key is that the Central Division is the worst division in baseball. Cleveland and Kansas City are horrible, Minnesota, Detroit and Chicago are the epitome of average. Someone has to win the division. If the Twins were in the east they would have finished 5th behind NY, Boston, Toronto and Tampa Bay. Luckily we get to play KC and Cleveland and the others so often we can usually manage to get above .500 and get in the playoffs where we have fallen flat on our faces 12 of the last 14 times.
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#65
10-14-2009, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
I never said most of the things you said, I've never argued for contraction, I've never said they should win the Series every year or even get there regularly. What I do gripe about is the horrible trades and awful free agency pickups our moronic GM has made and yes I do believe I could do better and so could about 95% of the posters on this board who have any modicum of baseball sense. I watched 155 Twins games this year. I read the Star Tribune and STPPP daily online. I read Baseball America and other publications too. I never claimed to be an expert but I know enough about the team and organization to understand things you can't fathom. Have you checked the ratings for the farm system the last few years and how we have slid from near the top to near the bottom? Have you followed the Red Wings, Rock Cats, Ft. Wayne, etc? I am glad you find it laughable that I stated that Morneau, Span, Maurer and Kubel struggle against GOOD lefties. The key is GOOD. You can throw out the statistics but whenever the game is on the line and the opposing team needs an out, they trot out a GOOD lefty reliever and our guys are punchless. Granted Maurer can hit about anyone, lefty or righty, but GOOD lefties like CC, Petit, Cliff Lee, etc always gave them fits. You know that. OK, this is my last Twins post because I am sure most posters here are not Twins fans and we can always take it to email but I always find it interesting in life that people who never criticize a team think they are a "better" fan than someone who offers up his opinions when he sees something which can be improved, changed or removed. Go Twins in 2010!!!
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#66
10-14-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Tbob what happened you seem more bitter than I am about the loss !
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#67
10-14-2009, 05:01 PM
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spare me the sanctimony tbob
1. I never claimed to be a better Twins fan than anyone, nor is it close to correct to suggest I never criticize the team. I've called Nick Punto every vulgar name known to man (repeating most just last Sunday), and have blasted everyone in the organization at one time or another.
2. You've got about 5 years on me, that's it, as I started with the Twins in '66. Yes, I regularly read the Twin Cities papers online, and yes I follow the minor league system. Nope, don't regularly read Baseball America. Don't need to. Want a true confession? I can't tell you what 16 year old kid in South Florida is the next Albert Pujols or what Dominican scout has the most signees in MLB. Want another confession? I couldn't care less, nor does that make me less informed about the team, and no, you couldn't tell me things about the team that I can't fathom, unless of course you want to dwell on those under 18 year olds that you may feel the need to scout. 3. Seems to me you will never be happy. There is not a team on the planet--any sport--that couldn't use improvement or could avoid criticism. That being said, it is a complete turn off to constantly hear whining about things that are irrelevant or that will never change. The Twins will never be in the AL East, or West. They will never outspend the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels, ever. Read that as NEVER, NUNCA, JAMAIS. Still, that awful AL Central has represented the league in the World Series two of the past four years, i.e. more recently than the Yankees. The Twins will not always get Nathan, Liriano and Bonser for AJ Pierzinski in every trade. And while I wish they could and sometimes delude myself into thinking they should, I don't ask that heads roll when things don't work out. The Twins are one of the most stable and consistent franchises in all of MLB--they are known for it, and it plays a large part in their success. There is simply no need to completely gut management or portions of the team every year because they can't seem to get out of the first round, oftentimes playing an extremely formidable opponent. 4. I see, it's just the "good" lefties we can't hit. You know, like the guys at the top that all teams have trouble hitting. Guess what? I'm betting they couldn't hit Koufax either, and that Steve Carlton would give them fits occasionally. Guess what else? Let's get those tough right handed batters just for such occasion, so we can sit Mauer, Span, Kubel and Morneau. This grows tiresome, and I am done. So you root your way, and I'll root mine, and we'll both look forward to next season, me with an eye toward stability and you with one for change. GO TWINS.
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#69
10-14-2009, 05:10 PM
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that being said....He appears to do very good job of motivating and getting team unity year after year. I also think the twins are better than Toronto and Tampa Bay...TBob makes some very good points above.
Last edited by murcerfan; 10-14-2009 at 05:10 PM.
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#70
10-14-2009, 05:24 PM
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#71
10-14-2009, 07:06 PM
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This year Delmon/Punto/Gomez did their very best to keep us out for five months. Gardy manages the team VERY well over the course of a season. He needs to work a bit in game situations. He can't let Gomez take that AB in the 11th during Game 2. Smith needs to sign Mauer now.
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