FS: Rare 1910 E-UNC Ty Cobb -- New Card Added

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by joshuabotnick2

He was the first to mention it, I was the first to offer it. In which he happily accepted.

So if you agreed to call off the deal, you shouldn't be making accusations.

[Maxjacks]

Originally Posted by joshuabotnick2

Jeff. You sold me a card, you realized you missed out on $10k and you called off the deal. You get hired not only some or the worst people in the hobby (Mastro, Probstein) but also some of the worst people in the world. You are not the saint you’re making yourself out to be.

I know you’re a lawyer, but do not gaslight me just because you realized you missed out on $10k. Not just “a few bucks”.

Enjoy your night Jeff

Moral grandstanding after doing what you did to a friend is really something Josh. I do not know Jeff at all but you should have more of a sense of irony.

This is someone you called a friend until this all went down and now you have an issue with him and his actions?

Seems to me that you were willing to compromise the principles you are now touting while it benefitted you.


I want to clarify that this is in no way a comment on Jeff as I do not know him. I am simply commenting on your own logic.

You have said so many things that you have later contradicted I really would not believe the time from your watch at this point

Max Jackson

[joshuabotnick2]

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[calvindog]

I made clear to you that if you were going to insist on pushing this disgusting thing you did, and require me to sell you the card, that I would — but that I would make sure everyone knew what kind of person you were. Are you actually suggesting I was physically threatening you? What is wrong with you?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by joshuabotnick2

Read my comment again, it was a threat , not a mention

I give up, I can't follow half of what you say. My advice, just stop.

[joshuabotnick2]

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[Zan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I give up, I can't follow half of what you say. My advice, just stop.

Whoever uses a space before and after a comma can't be trusted.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by joshuabotnick2

When did I say physical Jeff? Do you want me to send screenshots of our texts?

There’s something wrong with you. For real.

[joshuabotnick2]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Zan

Whoever uses a space before and after a comma can't be trusted.

A telltale sign for sure.

[Republicaninmass]

This certainly has taken a turn. I've also been one where I've had the greed or jealousy of others ruin friendships. 10k could be just a few bucks for some but will certainly be a comeuppance for Josh. I don't think it would be worth ruining a relationship with what appears to be a friend and mentor over 10k, or some baseball card. Sure, you might have gotten the drop on him after he posted a card 2 months prior and a sale was made, but plenty of times here posters have advised the seller they had made a mistake or error. I think the only time it didn't happen was that Cobb Fielding postcard someone got relatively cheap. Dozens of times it's happened to me on ebay where sellers claim a pricing error, and once a "friend" learned about my buy it now and offered more money to the seller.

there is just nothing you can do.

To take the moral high ground and say "a friend should consummate the deal" should.really look in the mirror and ask what a friend is. Start with yourself. Even if you get a full price offer, you still don't need to sell. Just like house, nobody can enforce a sale. You're barking up the wrong tree if you are trying to bully or intimidate the counselor by going on and on.

Now where is that 🍿

[T206CollectorVince]

LOLOL. I want to say I’m surprised, but I’m not.

[T206CollectorVince]

Originally Posted by Maxjacks

Moral grandstanding after doing what you did to a friend is really something Josh. I do not know Jeff at all but you should have more of a sense of irony.

This is someone you called a friend until this all went down and now you have an issue with him and his actions?

Seems to me that you were willing to compromise the principles you are now touting while it benefitted you.


I want to clarify that this is in no way a comment on Jeff as I do not know him. I am simply commenting on your own logic.

You have said so many things that you have later contradicted I really would not believe the time from your watch at this point

Max Jackson

Get’em!

[notfast]

I’m glad I have better friends than ones who’d try to buy a card from me at a months old price without letting me know about how one sold for 10k more days prior.

[joshuabotnick2]

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[calvindog]

Josh, you're a family friend, someone who I've done favors for, someone who responds to your many texts, someone who has spent time staying at my family's house -- yes, you don't try to steal a card from me without telling me that just a few days earlier the card sold for 300% more than my old listing price in an eBay auction. When you asked me to be on your podcast, I didn't hesitate to say yes, even though it took time out of my weekend, a rare time I have any time off. When you text me multiple times a week, I always respond. When you asked me to go to dinner with you and your father in Cleveland this summer, I said yes. As I told you, and you seemed to agree in texts and on the phone, the proper way to handle this would have been to tell me about the recent sale and then ask me if you could buy the card from me. I would have been happy with your honesty and given it to you at a discount -- just not the now arcane price that I had originally listed it for.

Instead, you claimed that because you're a "hustler" you simply didn't consider my feelings or our relationship: you wanted the card as it was really cheap and you wanted to trade up so that you could get your long-coveted 1952 Mantle. Of course, you didn't tell me this at the time you asked to buy it; instead you claimed that you wanted the card for your personal collection. Had you told me you were looking to make a big score on a flip, I would have quickly figured out that the card was badly mispriced and checked VCP. Because you're a kid I've looked out for like a son in this hobby, I didn't bother checking VCP when you said you wanted the card. I just presumed you'd never screw me over money.

Afterward, you asked me if it would be ok for you to sell the card. I thought that was odd because you had just told me how much you loved the card for your personal collection but now you want to sell it? I told you it was ok, but I also felt it was sleazy to some degree, but this is how the hobby is. People sometimes beg you for your card at a cheap price and explain they've wanted the card forever when in reality they just want a cheaper price and are willing to lie to get it.

Then I saw that you listed the card for sale (without my having even mailed it out yet) for 13K. And I received some more messages asking if the card was still available. At this point, I figured it out and checked VCP: and saw the Probstein sale for 12.7K just five days earlier. I was shocked that you hadn't told me about this before asking to buy the card. And I called you on it instantly. I didn't hide behind a keyboard, I asked you to call me and you did. And I lit into you for the incredibly scummy, sleazy, selfish thing you had done to a friend. You apologized profusely and the next day wanted to speak again, telling me you hadn't slept the night before. You also lied to me and said that you had assumed I had seen the 12.7K sale before selling you the card for 3.2K. As I repeatedly said to you, "how can you say that I knew the card just sold for 12.7K and then let it go for 3.2K?" After maintaining this lie for a while, you finally gave in and admitted that you knew I hadn't seen the recent Probstein sale, which is why I sold it to you for so cheap.

I told you I'd let you have the card for 3.2K but with that scummy move, I'd tell anyone and everyone what you did. As I told you, this isn't a baseball card life lesson, it's a life lesson period: don't take advantage of your friends. I then heard from a few people in the hobby who you told the story to and not one of them was told by you that the reason you wanted the card was due to the much higher Probstein sale compared to my much lower price. To each of these people you simply said I had a card for sale and had reneged on it. I told you, and I was right, that no respected person in the hobby would have done to me what you did to me. That I wouldn't do such a thing to a stranger on Net 54 as we're all part of the same small community and we should look out for each other. And I certainly would never do it to someone I considered a mentor, and a friend of my family.

I considered this ended only to find you talking about it out here. I then responded. I've received messages from 9 people since then telling me that you have questionable ethics in the hobby, that you were kicked out of one Facebook group due to your hobby practices and that you can't be trusted. I was then more disappointed in myself that I hadn't seen any of that in you when you were pretending to be my friend. Then you have the balls to get so low to attack my career, because I dare to defend people accused of crimes, as if somehow that makes me a criminal and not someone who provides people their constitutional right to a defense. You're pathetic and dishonest and a disappointment. I hope this was all worth it to you.

[joshuabotnick2]

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[calvindog]

In addition, editing and deleting your posts sometimes hours later, after I responded to the now-vanished comments from you: you look like a desperate rat, doing anything you can to make this look better for you. A real apology might be the right thing to do at this point instead of digging that hole deeper.

[Republicaninmass]

If you think your education is expensive, see what greed and ignorance will cost you.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by joshuabotnick2

Jeff, I apologized to you in an attempts to save my relationship with your cousins. The 9 people that messaged you are not “respected” members of the hobby. I put your character into question for the countless messages I have received about your actions and treatment to smaller lawyers in the hobby, who you say are “jealous of you”. Defending criminals and traffickers doesn’t make you a criminal by any means but it also doesn’t give you a moral high ground over me. Nor does it constitute you touting your money and power over me during our phone call, something you have done to countless others.

I explained to you that the 10K meant nothing to me and it still doesn't. It was the dishonesty from who I considered to be a trusted friend. My career doesn't give me the moral high ground here, my dealings with others here does. I wouldn't screw over anyone on Net 54 for a card, even someone I don't know. And I certainly wouldn't screw over a friend.

You trying to twist my words is just another example of you being a desperate, cornered rat.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by joshuabotnick2

Jeff, I apologized to you in an attempts to save my relationship with your cousins. The 9 people that messaged you are not “respected” members of the hobby. I put your character into question for the countless messages I have received about your actions and treatment to smaller lawyers in the hobby, who you say are “jealous of you”. Defending criminals and traffickers doesn’t make you a criminal by any means but it also doesn’t give you a moral high ground over me. Nor does it constitute you touting your money and power over me during our phone call, something you have done to countless others.

You are punching WELL above your weight here Joshua. Greedy does make for a hungry puppy.

[joshuabotnick2]

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[calvindog]

Originally Posted by joshuabotnick2

So you ignore the call out of flaunting your wealth and bullying smaller lawyers to bring up that I edit grammar mistakes. Cool.

Have a nice day Jeff

You deleted post after post above, not correcting typos.

I explained what I meant about the money issue and your accusation about other lawyers has zero to do with you trying to rob me. You're a hobby scumbag at age 18. Own it.

[joshuabotnick2]

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[calvindog]

Originally Posted by joshuabotnick2

Again Jeffery, if I wanted to rob you I would have demanded you give me the card, which you would’ve had to. You’re a 60 year old scumbag and you’ve been known to be one for years. This isn’t your first rodeo of being called out on net54. Stop it. Stop deflecting.

You would have demanded? LOL. I'm sure I would have been overpowered by that demand.

Josh, I have never been accused of robbing anyone in this hobby, unlike you at age 18. You're a pathetic, weird, creepy scumbag. Keep digging that hole.

[joshuabotnick2]

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[NiceDocter]

Just wanted to add….. I bought an item a year or so ago from Jeffrey not knowing who he was. I was treated kindly, professionally and as an equal. I quickly learned I was dealing with a very high powered collector after checking his website . It’s always nice when someone who is obviously very busy with a lot of major items of concern in life takes the time to be gracious to a smaller end collector like myself. Just wanted to give my personal experience for what it’s worth. Thanks Jeffrey again.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What a thread. Josh, after trying to pull a dickhead move on a friend, you're just digging yourself a deeper hole here trying to defend it. As I said many posts ago, you should cut your losses and stop.

[Zan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What a thread. Josh, after trying to pull a dickhead move on a friend, you're just digging yourself a deeper hole here trying to defend it. As I said many posts ago, you should cut your losses and stop.

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

[maniac_73]

Good lord Josh take your Loss and learn from it. Jeff has been more than patient with you even after you tried to scam him and take advantage of his generosity. This is sad.,

[Schwertfeger1007]

I’ve done several deals with Jeff. Always above board. He’s currently selling me a card from his PC at a fair price just to help me out.

Josh is a known scumbag who has been kicked out of several Facebook groups including mine. And blocked by more admins than I can count. This kid kept harassing me through messenger so I blocked him. Then he reported me to FB.

He is a rat and is everything that’s wrong with this hobby. The kid has no life so I’m sure I’ll get multiple responses that I won’t respond to.

Josh- I’ll be in Cleveland in a few months if you really want to get out from behind these keyboards my man. I know someone who I’m sure would be able to help me afterwards Pro- Bono.

@Leon I’ll drop my name 3x if you promise to start filtering trash from N54

Brian Schwertfeger
Brian Schwertfeger
Brian Schwertfeger

[joshuabotnick2]

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[autograf]

The hobby rungs in the ladder are not knives in the back of other collectors. I've answered every text I've gotten from Josh and given him advice ad nauseum on tobacco packs and the nonsports side of things. He shot me the photo of the Cobb that he'd bought and then I saw it up for sale pretty soon afterwards with a noted $7K offer already. No idea where it came from but I found out pretty soon that the seller reneged on the offer. Josh told me that and I asked him how he could possibly re-sell something he didn't already have. What I thought was a cautionary tale that could lead to a good lesson has led to a grave-digging. Best things is to extract yourself from the proceedings and have a cooling off period.

[Andrew1975]

As entertaining as this thread has been, my unsolicited advice to you, Josh, is as follows:

"If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." - Will Rogers

[Goudey]

🍿🍿🍿 Good old Net54

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Schwertfeger1007

I’ve done several deals with Jeff. Always above board. He’s currently selling me a card from his PC at a fair price just to help me out.

Josh is a known scumbag who has been kicked out of several Facebook groups including mine. And blocked by more admins than I can count. This kid kept harassing me through messenger so I blocked him. Then he reported me to FB.

He is a rat and is everything that’s wrong with this hobby. The kid has no life so I’m sure I’ll get multiple responses that I won’t respond to.

Josh- I’ll be in Cleveland in a few months if you really want to get out from behind these keyboards my man. I know someone who I’m sure would be able to help me afterwards Pro- Bono.

@Leon I’ll drop my name 3x if you promise to start filtering trash from N54

Brian Schwertfeger
Brian Schwertfeger
Brian Schwertfeger

"Known scumbag" at 18? Ouch. A couple of mega card doctors got their start very young, but still, that's an impressive accomplishment.

[Lorewalker]

IMO, I think both parties have made a mistake in this situation and sadly it is all over money and from my vantage point neither of them looks great.

My guess is that the card in question is really not worth 12,700. It sat here at 3,200 for more than 2 months. The card did not go up in value 3x in 60 days with no other sales and the seller was clearly more than ok with selling said card for 3,200.

I could be wrong. Seen stranger pricing trends but either way, a friend would let a friend know about the sale at 12,700, if they cared about the relationship. At the same time if Jeffrey really did not care about the money then he might have told his friend he was fine at 3,200 and to knock himself out trying to make some money.

[The Detroit Collector]

What a wild thread.

It's an unfortunate situation that's for sure. Money and greed are a powerful drug.

I don't believe that name calling on here should happen.
Regardless of how you feel about someone, these posts can be done without the verbal abuse.

That being said, Josh is young adult. Unfortunately, he does not see the magnitude of backstabbing a friend. It happens a lot these days, especially with younger generations.

Josh, it was not right move. Plain and simple.

Eric Barbour

[BeanTown]

I’ve never spoken to either party involved. Agree, all the name calling is bad. This is borderline nepotism it sounds like. Not sure what Josh did wrong, as he paid for a card from a close friend or what was done to make Jeff reneg on the deal after payment was received. Excuse any grammar errors, as I’m not as educated as some.

[Paulcurlee1]

Is anyone else wondering where the parents are in this whole deal? I sure as shit a) didn’t have 200 let alone 3500 or 12k to spend on cards when I was 17 & 18 and b) showed deference to older folks or ask my parents for help when dealing with adults. My dad would’ve slapped the taste out of my mouth if I addressed adults this way when I was 17&18

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Paulcurlee1

Is anyone else wondering where the parents are in this whole deal? I sure as shit a) didn’t have 200 let alone 3500 or 12k to spend on cards when I was 17 & 18 and b) showed deference to older folks or ask my parents for help when dealing with adults. My dad would’ve slapped the taste out of my mouth if I addressed adults this way when I was 17&18

With the internet, and devices, kids have their own lives that are not visible to their parents from a very young age.

[mrreality68]

I hope things work out between the 2 after a cooling down period.
Or at least both can just put this behind them and move on separately

Time to move on.

The thread is no longer a BST thread for a sale of cards and a new thread is needed for that.

[Republicaninmass]

nope, another feeble attempt was made on the Vintage Card group on Facebook.

edited: where are all the posts about how it was for the "PC" yet it was listed on FB minutes after the "sale" was agreed upon for 13k?

[Neal]

This thread has LOL, SMH, and WTF in equal amounts.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[Neal]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

nope, another feeble attempt was made on the Vintage Card group on Facebook.

edited: where are all the posts about how it was for the "PC" yet it was listed on FB minutes after the "sale" was agreed upon for 13k?

Yup


Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[trambo]

Originally Posted by Neal

This thread has LOL, SMH, and WTF in equal amounts.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

You 100% win the thread post of the day! Glad I wasn't the only one that thought the same!

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Paulcurlee1

Is anyone else wondering where the parents are in this whole deal? I sure as shit a) didn’t have 200 let alone 3500 or 12k to spend on cards when I was 17 & 18 and b) showed deference to older folks or ask my parents for help when dealing with adults. My dad would’ve slapped the taste out of my mouth if I addressed adults this way when I was 17&18

Yep, if that was my kid there would be consequences. Not good ones either...

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Two very rare Ty Cobb cards, both cut from candy boxes. These are two of the eight total graded between SGC and PSA. $12,500 delivered for each one, 20K for both. Email or PM if interested.

I have a blue Evers from this issue that still has the Ball diamond attached on the left and right sides. Have a Cy Young red like these Cobbys. Very tough issue indeed and Jeff L is completely highly recommended by me and a CLASS ACT!

[Stonepony]

IMG_0289.jpg
Love this issue too!

[Tomi]

Is there a reason why the red Cobb is authentic and the other Cobb and Mathewson have numerical grades? The red Cobb looks the best of the bunch.