Baseball Parks/Marlins Park

[tachyonbb]

This may not belong here, so Dan feel free to delete or move.

Tom Leslie is the Picard Chilton professor of Architecture at Iowa State University and a plus 1 baseball fan. He recently wrote an article about the new Marlins park. The original is here:
http://architecturefarm.wordpress.com/

After architecture (OK, and food), baseball is probably my one true passion, so when those two come together I'm interested. (And when they come with a good brat and a beer, I'm even more down).

Since the early 1990s, ballparks have followed Baltimore's Camden Yards in trying to replicate the feel of a very specific time period--the 1930s. Masonry exteriors, articulated steel interiors, intentionally quirky dimensions, and a general Ye Olde Ballpark feel to the interiors have all marked these efforts. Nearly all of them have been designed by Populous (formerly HOK Sport), and even though they've been popular, they've been a mixed bag architecturally. Camden Yards is still, to my mind, the best and the least self-conscious. Some of them are truly bad--the Rangers' stadium in Arlington feels like a shopping mall inside and out to me, which might be unintentionally appropriate.

I grew up going to Cubs and Red Sox games, so I understand that my standards are unrealistically high. Part of those teams' appeal, I think, is that their parks are so knitted into the city. You'd be out of your mind to try driving to either one, and both of them are wedged in tightly enough that they don't meet any realistic 21st century standards for personal space. The men's rooms at Wrigley Field are, deservedly, notorious.

So any attempt to re-create the "atmosphere" of an old ballpark is doomed--at least if the owners want to meet the expectations of the average nuclear family who are out for an evening of baseball and not too much contact with their fellow fans. And while one or two projects have attempted some genuinely interesting takes on the old parks' integration with their surroundings (San Diego and San Francisco), many of these 'neo-classic' stadia come off as a slice of suburban kitsch. Sort of like Pottery Barn coming downtown.

So the new Miami stadium is a couple of weeks into its season, and it's getting notice for doing something different. It's also by Populous, but it's abandoned any pretense of fitting in or referring to some fictional "golden era" of the game. (Reminder: baseball's "golden era" included precisely no African-American players in its "major leagues.") Instead, it's sort of gloriously Miami--brash, bright, with a sort of horrifying Red Grooms sculpture in the outfield that explodes whenever the Marlins hit a home run and aquariums full of live fish behind home plate. An article in today's Times describes it's "panache" and it's attempts to fit in economically--if not formally--to it's Little Havana neighborhood.

It's not really my cup of tea, but it's at least trying. I don't agree, though, that it's the game's first 21st century stadium--that honor, clearly, belongs to Yankee Stadium, which replaced a genuine (if badly mauled by a 1976 renovation) piece of history. The new Yankee Stadium encapsulates everything that's gone wrong with the game, catering to the skybox crowd while relegating the huddled masses to distant, overly steep seats. Like all major league sports, baseball has found itself playing more and more to the 1%, and the new Miami stadium follows that trend, too.

Still, it's a new take, at least. By coincidence, an associate with Populous was on a handful of independent reviews here a couple of weeks ago. We were talking between projects, and I asked him whether there was any sense that the next wave of nostalgia-themed stadiums would pick up on the total loss of the concrete "donuts" from the 1960s and 1970s. Three Rivers Stadium, Shea Stadium, Fulton County Stadium...all of these bring back distinct memories for me, anyway, of a kind of golden age when you could actually buy tickets the day of the game and afford a hot dog and peanuts with the change. He was not enthusiastic about this, but I think if you squint at the Miami park's "elliptical concrete, steel and glass boulder..." hard enough you might just see an unintentional homage...

[ctownboy]

I was thinking about that stadium (Miami) today while watching the game. Again, my thoughts were how AWFUL that sculpture is in Left Center Field and also how AWFUL that cheesy riverboat is in Center Field in Cincinnati.

As far as the stadiums catering to the 1%. I think things would change when the 1% owners would pay for these things themselves instead of adding all the bells and whistles and then having the local tax payer pay for them.

The new Cowboy Stadium cost something like $1.2 billion dollars but at least Jerry Jones paid for it himself (or didn't resort to blackmail to get public financing). So, if he wanted to add some bells and whistles, fine for him - HE PAID FOR IT HIMSELF.

In Miami, I think that sculpture cost something like $3 million dollars. IF public financing was used and interest is paid on that, how much is that sculpture REALLY going to cost? For those who don't like tax increases is it WORTH whatever the eventual cost is going to be?

As a baseball fan, I wouldn't like it if I lived in Miami and my taxes went up to pay for that thing. I can just imagine what a NON baseball fan thinks about that sculpture when they see taxes going up....

David

[jerseygary]

I was the graphic designer who did all the environmental graphics for Camden Yards - the scoreboard, weather vanes, logo, usher uniforms - all the things that made it unique looking other than the architectural shell. It was one of my first jobs as a designer and as a life long baseball fan, a dream job. Because no one had ever done a new stadium like that it was a carefree type of project - there was no yard-stick to measure against. Instead of looking at recently done stadiums I studied the old ballparks such as Crosley Field, Wrigley, Ebbets, Polo Grounds, etc and soaked in the feel of what the original ballparks and their graphics and signage looked like. Chicago had done new Comiskey and Toronto just opened theirs the year before but they were not designed to be a place that would encompass baseball nostalgia like Baltimore wanted to. The O's VP Janet Marie Smith was the true guiding force behind the look and feel of the park because she wanted it to be a tribute to the game's past and not another round dounut. She fought tooth and nail with the architects, HOK who wanted to make another Toronto stadium with no soul and through her unbending vision we got Camden Yards.

The stadiums that followed Camden Yards kind of went over-board with the "olde-tyme" stuff which frankly I chalk up to designers who were not baseball fans at heart. I haven't been to the New Yankee Stadium but I have seen the blueprints and sketches for it and I like the modern feel to it combined with the classic touches. It suits the team and the times.

It's been 20 years now since I sat at my desk and hand-drew the graphics and although I haven't been to the park in 17 years I still get a nice feeling when it gets ranked as one of the best stadiums in the majors.

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by jerseygary

I was the graphic designer who did all the environmental graphics for Camden Yards - the scoreboard, weather vanes, logo, usher uniforms - all the things that made it unique looking other than the architectural shell. It was one of my first jobs as a designer and as a life long baseball fan, a dream job...

...It's been 20 years now since I sat at my desk and hand-drew the graphics and although I haven't been to the park in 17 years I still get a nice feeling when it gets ranked as one of the best stadiums in the majors.

Camden's a beautiful place. You did one heck of a job!

Having said that, already bought tickets to visit Marlins park on labor day. Marlins vs Brewers so hopefully I'll get to see a Josh Johnson vs Greinke match-up but they'll probably be both on the DL come September.

[steve B]

Grerat thread, especially as I'm reading a book about the building of Camden Yards right now. Fascinating stuff, especially seeing the earlier ideas that didn't happen.
I also just happen to be at the section that describes the stuff Gary mentioned.

I've only been to a few parks, I've been wanting to go to Baltimore, but the trip hasn't come together yet.

But I've been in Fenway plenty, plus old Comiskey, and Shea.
The Sox are doing a nice job with Fenway, the laundry building is now part of the park, and has the largest restrooms I've ever seen. Like 3 aisles of stalls, 60-70? maybe more.
I do miss the "waterfall" though. Closed for decades, and I think totally removed now. One very unique bit of plumbing.

Old comiskey was also nice, I liked the picnic areas under the outfield stands with screens looking out onto the field. Just like watching the game from the warning track.

Shea was odd, I had great seats and lousy seats. The tickets my cousin got from saving milk cartons were far enough away we needed a sherpa or two. If it wasn't for the corrupt ushers we wouldn't have seen much. (Go a deck closer for $1 each, two decks closer for $5 each.)
The good seats were the coca-cola corporate box, totally different treatment. Led to the seats, seats wiped off, vendors summoned if we didn't want to wait......But still farther away than most seats in Fenway.

Veterans in Philly wasn't bad, but I was there for football, so it may have been different.

I think a great idea for luxury boxes would be what I'd call "remote dugout seating" Setup a camera or two with wide angle in or near the dugout, and send a live feed to a wall size screen installed in an office at a company. Done right it could look pretty close to being there. After it was up and running you could even sell the feed to the home theatre market.

Steve B