Thoughts on grading this '65 Mantle?

[sickmantz]

Hi all. Picked this up recently and I'm curious how well you think it would grade. My main concern is the blue ink smudges on the back. It's not a normal feature, and couldn't find any on ebay with this type of smudging, so I'm wondering how badly it will affect the grade. Do you think it would warrant a (MK) qualifier?

Thanks for your time.

[cgjackson222]

Is it not already in an SGC holder?

[JollyElm]

(Sorry, but the poll is silly. No offense. If it's NOT a pen or marker type of a mark on the back, then most of the choices are eliminated.)

Yeah, is that just a regular, non-TPG type of holder it's in, or is it already in an SGC slab?

The blue on back definitely looks to be a print defect (PD), so if it doesn't get that qualifier, then it will cause the grade to drop, but it's anyone's guess how many numbers lower that would be.

Is the card severely bowed? Or is it miscut on the lower left there? This card is notorious for coming back as 'Authentic - Miscut' from PSA, because of the strange way it was cut at the factory. I have one, in fact. If it's bowing, then maybe you need to take an iron to it to flatten it out a bit before submitting.

Good luck!!

[sickmantz]

It's a GAI slab. It does appear to be bowed.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

...maybe you need to take an iron to it to flatten it out a bit before submitting...[/COLOR][/B]

Please do not take an iron to a '65 Mantle.

[Hxcmilkshake]

GAI? measure it and check the edges, I would be concerned about trimming

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[JollyElm]

And, of course, by ironing I mean put it under a towel and carefully and gently run an iron (not being overly hot) over it a bit...and not pressing too hard or leaving the iron in the same spot. Keep it moving. This tends to help flatten out cards which have bowed over the years (I assume by eliminating trapped moisture?), while doing no damage to them whatsoever.

[swarmee]

A card's natural bowing does not negatively impact the grade as long as there are no creases/bends as a result. I agree that the ink on the back is PD, not MK.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

And, of course, by ironing I mean put it under a towel and carefully and gently run an iron (not being overly hot) over it a bit...and not pressing too hard or leaving the iron in the same spot. Keep it moving. This tends to help flatten out cards which have bowed over the years (I assume by eliminating trapped moisture?), while doing no damage to them whatsoever.

Darren, please know I'm not taking a swipe at you here. I just can't get behind ironing a baseball card. It reminds me of the trend in comic book collecting in which people "press" their books. Among the many things I don't like about this practice is the fact that most of the defects reappear over time.

Regarding cards:

If I'm not mistaken, removing moisture will exaggerate the type of bowing the '65 Mantle exhibits. The card is basically made of two parts:

• The untreated card stock (back of the card)
• The treated, slightly glossy layer with the photo (card front)

When stored in a low humidity environment, such as a home with forced air heat, the card stock will lose moisture. This causes the card to curl/bow towards the back. I have first hand experience with this...unfortunately.

In theory, high humidity environments should cause the card to bow in the opposite direction.

Another theory, which I haven't tested, is that a humidor or similar contraption would gradually bring a bowed card back to being flat. The trick would be finding the right humidity level. Since (likely) nobody knows what the humidity level was in the room where '65 Topps was printed, it would (again, hypothetically) take a bit of trial and error to find the right number.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Darren, please know I'm not taking a swipe at you here. I just can't get behind ironing a baseball card. It reminds me of the trend in comic book collecting in which people "press" their books. Among the many things I don't like about this practice is the fact that most of the defects reappear over time.

Regarding cards:

If I'm not mistaken, removing moisture will exaggerate the type of bowing the '65 Mantle exhibits. The card is basically made of two parts:

• The untreated card stock (back of the card)
• The treated, slightly glossy layer with the photo (card front)

When stored in a low humidity environment, such as a home with forced air heat, the card stock will lose moisture. This causes the card to curl/bow towards the back. I have first hand experience with this...unfortunately.

In theory, high humidity environments should cause the card to bow in the opposite direction.

Another theory, which I haven't tested, is that a humidor or similar contraption would gradually bring a bowed card back to being flat. The trick would be finding the right humidity level. Since (likely) nobody knows what the humidity level was in the room where '65 Topps was printed, it would (again, hypothetically) take a bit of trial and error to find the right number.

Oh, I wasn't thinking of it as a swipe, I was just clarifying my method in case anyone cared, because having some really bowed old cards, I employed the towel ironing technique as more or less of a test to see if it would make them flat again. It did work and they stayed that way, because I would pull them out of the toploaders and let them sit overnight in the open air, and the next morning they still held (basically the same) flatness. Your mileage may vary.

[refz]

Print defect

[sickmantz]

I'm not sure how I missed the option for a Print Defect qualifier. Makes sense.

I wish PSA had a better example on their site. I honestly can't tell why it was marked PD.

[swarmee]

Here is a close-up based on their cert verification page for the card. It does not have the regular black smearing at the bottom right of the card which is what usually gets PD on the 1980 Bird/Magic RC. I think it got the PD based on the print snow (white specks) in the image backgrounds.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Here is a close-up based on their cert verification page for the card. It does not have the regular black smearing at the bottom right of the card which is what usually gets PD on the 1980 Bird/Magic RC. I think it got the PD based on the print snow (white specks) in the image backgrounds.

And possibly the top right. Follow the last N in Johnson, from the bottom of the letter to the border of the card.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Eric72

And possibly the top right. Follow the last N in Johnson, from the bottom of the letter to the border of the card.

That line is actually a known variation of the card. But it could be that. Print snow can count as PD, and in the oversized image, it shows up really well.