Chains

[frankbmd]

Football has changed in many ways in the last 60 years. We now have high def, instant replay, coaching challenges, booth reviews with the ability to view each play in super slo mo from 17 different angles. Rules have changed to define acceptable plays, what is a completed pass, what is a fumble, breaking the plane, etc. Rules have been changed in the name of safety, concussion protocols, unabated to the quarterback, targeting etc. in so many ways high tech instruments have affected the way the game is played, the way it is officiated and the way it is watched and analyzed.

Does it not seem strange to anyone else that the one element of the game from the fifties that remains essentially unchanged are the chains. How crude that a ten yard length of chain affixed to two poles, which invariably gets trotted out onto the field to measure for a first down, remains part of the game.

Go to your garage and look at the garage doors. Is there not a safety device near the ground with a beam of light that needs to be reflected back for the door to operate. Don't tell me in this day and age that the chains are necessary. A device on each sideline could beam a visible light across the field to determine first downs, or better yet put a chip or three in the ball that can be sensed to determine forward progress.

I don't even recall a discussion of replacing the chains with technology, so have at it. I say down with the chains and bring football into the 21st century. Here, here!!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Great post, Frank. I think the closest to chain replacement we'll see are the blue and yellow lines.

[frankbmd]

C'mon man. With GPS we can get to our mistresses hideaway blindfolded. With smart bombs we can target the front door or the back door of a shanty in Uzbekistan. My wife can look at Google Earth and tell me whose cars are in our driveway. She can't tell me which golf cart I'm in, but really do we need to get ten yards of chain from Ace Hardware to determine first downs. I think not.

David, I suspect the blue and yellow lines on the tube are more accurate (or could be) than the chains. Let Jim Nance and Joe Buck call the first downs from the booth then. Nope, we got bring in those chains. If they are so damn accurate the chains should be brought onto the field everytime there is a first down so they can be set accurately on the side line in case they are needed, but no we just let the chain gang eyeball it on first down. What would you tell your son if his goal in life was to become a football chain operator?

[clydepepper]

I think I would miss the anticipation of whether the first downs were made or not...unless they could develop something like they have in tennis - where the crowd can follow the ball right up to the split-second it lands.

What irks me much more than that is when a team scores, then there's a commercial, then one play later (the kickoff), there's another full commercial.

Sometimes I get so frustrated with NFL games having so many commercials, I set out to count the number of commercials and the total time taken up by those commercials compared to the total time of actual play. But, I get distracted by about the fourth one.

I also hate the back-ground (supposedly) music on, not only all highlights, but on all graphics.

I recall a graphic earlier this year during a baseball game displaying certain managers win-loss totals - accompanied by still more music.

At least Casey Stengel was enjoyable when he filled 'dead air'.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

C'mon man. With GPS we can get to our mistresses hideaway blindfolded. With smart bombs we can target the front door or the back door of a shanty in Uzbekistan. My wife can look at Google Earth and tell me whose cars are in our driveway. She can't tell me which golf cart I'm in, but really do we need to get ten yards of chain from Ace Hardware to determine first downs. I think not.

David, I suspect the blue and yellow lines on the tube are more accurate (or could be) than the chains. Let Jim Nance and Joe Buck call the first downs from the booth then. Nope, we got bring in those chains. If they are so damn accurate the chains should be brought onto the field everytime there is a first down so they can be set accurately on the side line in case they are needed, but no we just let the chain gang eyeball it on first down. What would you tell your son if his goal in life was to become a football chain operator?

With little doubt, ball placement and first down yardage could be exact with the video angles available. The blue n' yellow lines could easily become official measuring guidelines. Of course a game would get longer and that is something the NFL is getting pushback about now. Imagine officials running to the replay for every questionable situation in addition to the existing "REPLAY " challenges in place now.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

With little doubt, ball placement and first down yardage could be exact with the video angles available. The blue n' yellow lines could easily become official measuring guidelines. Of course a game would get longer and that is something the NFL is getting pushback about now. Imagine officials running to the replay for every questionable situation in addition to the existing "REPLAY " challenges in place now.

There seems to be two choices, which I alluded to in my sarcastic post on the officials thread. All the tech is taking the officials out of the game and slowing it down. All games are poorly ( really?) officiated because the officials do not have super slo mo eyes. The number of calls made from the booth or even from NYC is increasing every year and the game is getting slower.

I guess the point I'm making is that all the tech, replays, reviews, etc. marginalizes the officials on the field in the name of "Getting it right".
And then we argue the next day anyway about the Dez Bryant call and others and blame the officials for throwing the game to one team or the other. C'mon man.

I remember watching pro football in the late fifties, yes with Unitas, Gifford & Jim Brown playing. There was TV then and the game was played in a two hour slot on Sunday afternoon. The officials called the game as "they" saw it and there was rarely an argument from the players or they got penalized. More football, fewer commercials and it didn't take eight hours to watch back to back games.

The common link between today's game and the game of my childhood is the chains. Apart from having seats and four tires, the cars of today do not resemble the Edsel (Google it if you haven't seen one.).

Personally I don't really mind the chains, but after last night's four hour game, I don't know whether to buy a Chevy truck from the first quarter, a Ford Fusion from the second quarter or a Honda from the second half. Perhaps that Edsel wasn't so bad after all. Long live the chains.

[D.P.Johnson]

I've always wondered how often the chains are calibrated...Do they shrink or expand depending on the temperature???...Do they stretch over time due to the constant pulling???...Where does the NFL buy the chains from???...Does some company have an exclusive NFL chains contract???...How often are the chains replaced???...Do they ever break???...If so, are they repaired or replaced with a new set???...If they are repaired, does some company have an exclusive NFL chain repair contract???...How much does a net set of chains cost???...Where are the chains kept between games???...Could some unscrupulous fanatic access the chains and alter their length???...What would happen if all the chains were stolen???...How much does a used set of chains cost on eBay???....(I'll go check on this right now and get back with you......)

[glenv]

I remember a game where on 1st down the defense had an off-sides penalty and the refs marked off 5 yards. After two incompletions, the defense had another off-sides and the refs marched off another 5 yards. Then they brought out the chains to see if it was a first down and they were a few inches short...

[Section103]

To me, the room for improvement isn't just in the chains; but perhaps more importantly spotting the ball correctly. Each tackle has a certain amount of arbitrary placement (some more than others, of course) which over the course of downs/drives makes the chain measurement precision kinda pointless.

Like you though, I think there are great areas of advancement that could be made soon. You cant just flash a laser line across the field (it crowns and the first person to step in front of it turns it off). The microchip in the ball could be a great use too; just not sure how to integrate it with "down by contact".

[frankbmd]

Once again I don't have a big problem with chains and my sarcasm is difficult to differentiate from my feelings in these posts.

The dichotomy in accuracy that exists in today's game between frame by frame slow motion booth reviews to determine whether the plane is broken before the knee is down and hauling out two sticks linked by a chain to determine first downs seems incongruous, I repeat incongruous.

The statistical significance of never ending decimals in mathematics lacks relevance if you are using a chain to measure it. It really is just as accurate to say that Eddie Lacy gained 4.7 yards on a given play as it is to say he gained 4.68524583 yards. And to say that he gained 5 yards is fine with me.
Using both a micrometer and a yardstick for measuring in the same arena is also incongruous.

Officiating on the field has become the starting point for determining outcomes on close calls and is no longer the final word. Extrapolating forward with the current trend we might see a day in the future where a football game takes 12 hours to complete.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I guess the point I'm making is that all the tech, replays, reviews, etc. marginalizes the officials on the field in the name of "Getting it right".
And then we argue the next day anyway about the Dez Bryant call and others and blame the officials for throwing the game to one team or the other. C'mon man.

It doesn't marginalize field officials - t brings them into the spotlight. I also disagree that it really has anything to do with "Getting it right". Everything the NFL does is to increase profit - if "getting it right" increased profit, then they would "get it right". They haven't been "getting it right" a lot of the time, even with instant replay. If 2 hour football games were more profitable to the NFL than 3.5 hr ones, then they would still be 2 hours.

Regarding chains and instant replay, I have been impressed at how accurate officials have been at spotting the football. Instant replay has verified their accuracy in most cases, but perhaps knowing that they would be scrutinized in slow motion leads them to spot more accurately? Hard to say - there were complaints about spots prior to instant replay and there are still complaints, even after instant replay causes the spots to change.

We argue the next day because slow motion replays have changed the way we view live action football plays - football occurs very fast and it should (in my opinion) be officiated based on what we see in real time. If mistakes are made, sobeit...but again, it comes down to lining the NFL's pockets.

Officials have been accused of throwing games long before instant replay came along. Instant replay just gives them a new set of tools for throwing games.

[D.P.Johnson]

I like the idea of 12 hour games.

Her: "Honey, are you going to mow the lawn today?"

Me: "Absolutely my dearest; I'm gonna do that right after this game is over. Do you mind grabbing me another beer?"

[Runscott]

Frank, this was a great topic - thank you.

To summarize my thoughts, I hate instant replay. I also hate that stupid giant robot looking mascot they use throughout the game, the dumb theme songs they repeat until you can't get them out of your head, coke-head and murderer former players turned announcers and various other things.

I would gladly trade HD t.v. and go back to a small vacuum tube fuzzy screen, to get rid of all of the above.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Frank, this was a great topic - thank you.

To summarize my thoughts, I hate instant replay. I also hate that stupid giant robot looking mascot they use throughout the game, the dumb theme songs they repeat until you can't get them out of your head, coke-head and murderer former players turned announcers and various other things.

I would gladly trade HD t.v. and go back to a small vacuum tube fuzzy screen, to get rid of all of the above.

Thanks Scott, I think you get it and we agree more than we disagree. I am just struck by the things in football that haven't changed in 60 years. There is a kickoff and there still are four downs. There are still 15 minutes in a quarter and four quarters in a game (but how they are measured has changed). There are still eleven players on both sides of the ball. And lets not forget the chains, but almost every other aspect of the game has evolved (some would say improved). Technology has impacted the game (in football and in other sports as well), but not the chains. And the championship game of 1958 between the Colts and the Giants was just as enjoyable as this year's Super Bowl will be. And some would say more enjoyable.

[Runscott]

I did not see that one, but games in the 1960's were much more enjoyable for me.

[billyb]

Frank,
Not too many people think about the initial placement of the chains after a first down, when the chains are moved. They are placed where the official shows them, usually by putting his foot where he wants the tip of the chain.
Well, the front of the shoe is rounded, not pointed, so that may be and inch or so from where the ball actually is. And the official, when placing his foot, where he want the chains, may also be off by an inch or more.
So when a team comes up an inch short, or makes it by an inch, it may have been due to the fact of a poor initial chain placement. But we will have to live that fact, as it would just take the flow away from the game, to try and accurately get that initial chain spotted correctly. Because even if the chain was off by an inch, it is the same for every play for both teams, so long at the initial chain placement is accurate it would be fair.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by billyb

Frank,
Not too many people think about the initial placement of the chains after a first down, when the chains are moved. They are placed where the official shows them, usually by putting his foot where he wants the tip of the chain.
Well, the front of the shoe is rounded, not pointed, so that may be and inch or so from where the ball actually is. And the official, when placing his foot, where he want the chains, may also be off by an inch or more.
So when a team comes up an inch short, or makes it by an inch, it may have been due to the fact of a poor initial chain placement. But we will have to live that fact, as it would just take the flow away from the game, to try and accurately get that initial chain spotted correctly. Because even if the chain was off by an inch, it is the same for every play for both teams, so long at the initial chain placement is accurate it would be fair.

I hear you, but please elaborate on your so-called "flow of the game" as it pertains to a 3 minute booth review. The two hour game of fifty years ago had a lot of flow and far fewer commercials.

[Runscott]

Bill, I see it as all being part of the game - humans make the decisions. Also keep in mind that the play that is called, the effort exerted by the player with the ball, even the path he takes as he runs...all are based on where the ball is spotted before each play, not where the initial chain was placed. And then, once again, it's human judgement at the end of the play.

Let humans just make the decisions and make mistakes, as humans always have done.

[billyb]

Frank,
I agree with you, games lost their flow, compared to fifty years ago.
Perhaps, I should have stated, that it may interfere with what is left, of any flow to the game.

Bill

[billyb]

Scott,
I do agree with you about letting the officials handle the game. I am not really complaining about how the chains are handled. It is best just to keep the momentum going. So I can put up with an inch here or there. It all comes out pretty even.
To make everything exact, the game would take forever to play. This was just my 2 cents about the handling of the chains. A part of the game that will be handle the same way forever.

[clydepepper]

regardless of anything said in this thread so far...we keep watching...

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

regardless of anything said in this thread so far...we keep watching...

.......chained to the tube.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

.......chained to the tube.

...and it sure hurt yesterday

[Runscott]

There was none of that crap in Seattle yesterday. Thank God.