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  #371  
Old 04-17-2018, 08:30 PM
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nat nat is offline
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Just looked up that deal. Who would have thought that Joe Jackson would be a player to be named later?
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  #372  
Old 04-17-2018, 11:26 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Bris Lord and Joe Jackson?

You correctly guessed the 2 ballplayers that were involved in one of the most bizarre trades in BB history.

Email me and we'll talk about the T206 card which I will send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net




.



Bristol Lord traded (July 23, 1910) by the Cleveland Naps to the Philadelphia A's for a player to be named later. July 30, 1910, the Philadelphia A's
sent Shoeless Joe Jackson to the Cleveland Naps to complete the trade.


Connie Mack was a great Manager with a keen talent for recruiting some great ballplayers (especially from the College ranks) for 50 years.
However, Connie Mack certainly did not give Shoeless Joe a chance to show his extraordinary hitting ability with the A's.





TED Z
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Last edited by tedzan; 04-18-2018 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #373  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:02 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default Connie Mack

. .



Connie Mack believed that ballplayers in College received better training **......than the ones in the Minor League Farm system.
Connie had a keen sense of talent, and he (and his brother) would scout out young recruits from College campuses.
Here is a list of the A's in the T206 set who started on College teams......


Jack Barry (Holy Cross)
Chief Bender (Dickinson)
Eddie Collins (Columbia)
Harry Davis (Girard College)
Harry Krause (St Mary's College)
Simon Nicholls (Maryland)
Eddie Plank (Gettysburg College)
Doc Powers (Holy Cross)

and, missing from the T206 set
Andy Coakley (Holy Cross)
Jack Coombs (Colby College)......(1910 W-L = 31-9, ERA = 1.30)



** Note....Connie Mack (the Early Years of Baseball), Norman Macht

Hey guys....I highly recommend this book.
While reading it, you'll imagine the guys in your T206 set come alive. Almost every player from that era is covered in this book.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-24-2018 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #374  
Old 04-18-2018, 11:35 AM
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I read somewhere that Connie Mack knew exactly what he had in Joe Jackson. He basically gave him away as a gift to Charles Somers, owner of the Cleveland Naps.

Without Somers support, the American League would have folded in its early years. Around 1910, Somers was struggling financially, so Connie Mack sent him Joe Jackson as a gift. There should probably be a Charles Somers monument in every American League ballpark

I don't remember where I read this, but I believe it was Connie Mack's own words. Maybe someone else can confirm this?
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  #375  
Old 04-18-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipk1068 View Post

Without Somers support, the American League would have folded in its early years. Around 1910, Somers was struggling financially, so Connie Mack sent him Joe Jackson as a gift. There should probably be a Charles Somers monument in every American League ballpark
If this is true there should be a Connie Mack statue in every American Ballpark. Except perhaps Chicago, where Joe Jackson's tenure didn't end well.

Still, if they could keep Comiskey's name on the ballpark for 80 more years, perhaps they've forgiven Jackson as well.
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  #376  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipk1068 View Post
I read somewhere that Connie Mack knew exactly what he had in Joe Jackson. He basically gave him away as a gift to Charles Somers, owner of the Cleveland Naps.

Without Somers support, the American League would have folded in its early years. Around 1910, Somers was struggling financially, so Connie Mack sent him Joe Jackson as a gift. There should probably be a Charles Somers monument in every American League ballpark

I don't remember where I read this, but I believe it was Connie Mack's own words. Maybe someone else can confirm this?

David
With all due respect to you, I cannot buy this bit regarding the American League folding. In the first decade of the 20th Century, the American League under the command
of Ban Johnson outdrew the National League in attendance by wide margins.
For example, check out these headlines of Opening Day at Shibe Park (April 12 1909) in Philadelphia..........................





Shoeless Joe Jackson's performance with Greenville (.346) in 1908, and Savannah (.358) in 1909 impressed Connie Mack. However, Joe Jax just couldn't "hack" it playing
with the College bred guys on the A's. In part, because some of them were not too kind to this "rebel rookie" who they considered "illiterate".
Believe it or not....some were still "fighting the Civil War in the beginning of the 20th Century. You can check-out this fact....during the T206 era there were very few Major
Leaguers that hailed from the "Deep South" (SC, GA, ALA, Miss). Of course, Ty Cobb was one, and therein lies a lot of his problems.

Connie Mack saw a chance to recover Bristol Lord from the Cleveland Naps, so he traded away Joe Jax. Very quickly, Joe's Cleveland teammates took a liking to him and his
performance reflected this as he batted .408 in 1911.

That's the story, as I understand it.


TED Z
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  #377  
Old 04-20-2018, 06:00 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED

.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts.

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Posts #369 >> 376.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-19-2018 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Updated INDEX.
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  #378  
Old 05-16-2018, 07:52 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Jantz Morey

Thanks to Net54, I first met Jantz Morey at the 2008 National. And, I looked forward to each subsequent National to get together with him.
We became instant friends, talking T206 cards and trading them. Our conversation started by Jantz bringing up the subject of my "Elite 11"
thread (posted in the Fall of 2007). He was fascinated by these rare PIEDMONT 350 cards. He was happy to show me 8 of these cards that
he had acquired in less than a year. Plus he had two duplicates (Lindaman and Mullin).

I mentioned to him that I was missing Mullin with the PIEDMONT 350 back. He gave me his extra Mullin and did not want anything in return.
That's the kind of guy Jantz was.
Subsequently, I returned the favor by sending him POLAR BEAR cards for his T206 run.

At the National's, we would talk T206's for what seemed like hours. Jantz really impressed me with his keen insight into the complexities of
the T206 set. We would delve into the nitty-gritty details of this set. Also, Jantz loved finding printing anomalies in T206's. He would contact
me when he found one, so we could compare notes. Here's an example where he noticed that occasionally a Mullin card would be found with
a printer's mark above the arm. Between the two of us, we found 8 of these cards with this identical printer's mark.

.............................................v






There is so much more that I could write about regarding our 11 year old friendship. I still cannot believe Jantz is not with us anymore.


GOD Bless his soul....and, may GOD comfort his family.


TED Z
.
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  #379  
Old 05-21-2018, 07:09 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206

Approx. 12 weeks before a tragic event in BB....there was an occurrence in Griffith Stadium which eerily portends this tragic event.

#1....What "tragic event" am I referring to ?

#2....can you describe this occurrence in Washington ?


Note......
I changed the time between these 2 events, and corrected the Stadium where the 1st event occurred. The story remains the same.
So, give this another try. Please excuse my error due to my hasty posting.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Last edited by tedzan; 05-22-2018 at 08:12 PM. Reason: Corrected info.
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  #380  
Old 05-21-2018, 07:23 PM
Noy Noy is offline
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I assume the tragic event in question was Carl Mays hitting and killing Ray Chapman with a pitch, but I have no idea what the foreshadowing event might have been. Interested in finding out.
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