Could Caitlyn Clark compete with D1 men?

[packs]

Bobbi Gibb unofficially ran the 1966 Boston marathon. She was not officially entered into the race because the organizers thought women were too fragile to run it.

She completed the race with a time that was better than two thirds of the people running it.

There also seems to be a fallacy in the discussion of women in sports. I think the bar is being set unreasonably high for what is considered competing. A woman does not need to be Lebron James to be considered competitive. Lebron James is better than 99% of all players who have ever played basketball professionally in any capacity. All a woman needs to do to compete is be good enough to wear a jersey. I don't see anyone suggesting someone like Brian Scalabrine isn't a competitive basketball player.

To go back to the example given of a woman giving up 12 runs in two Major League innings, that would be considered an immortal moment for women in the sport, not a failure. How many men have similar debuts? Larry Yount got hurt warming up and didn't even throw a pitch, but he still appeared in a Major League game. Was he not a competitive pitcher?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

To go back to the example given of a woman giving up 12 runs in two Major League innings, that would be considered an immortal moment for women in the sport, not a failure. How many men have similar debuts? Larry Yount got hurt warming up and didn't even throw a pitch, but he still appeared in a Major League game. Was he not a competitive pitcher?

I mean if we’re going to adopt the lunacy that giving up 6 runs an inning is competitive and a success for a pitcher, sure. Of course everyone will see a 54 ERA as a successful outing. There’s been so many male pitchers with 54 ERA’s that we consider competitive. It’s competitive to get annihilated. Down is up. Left is right. Arguments like this are when you know there’s no real case just a desire for their to be one

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

I mean if we’re going to adopt the lunacy that giving up 6 runs an inning is competitive and a success for a pitcher, sure. Of course everyone will see a 54 ERA as a successful outing. There’s been so many male pitchers with 54 ERA’s that we consider competitive. It’s competitive to get annihilated. Down is up. Left is right. Arguments like this are when you know there’s no real case just a desire for their to be one

Haha what does that mean exactly? That reaching the major leagues is not a measurement of success in the sport?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

Haha what does that mean exactly? That reaching the major leagues is not a measurement of success in the sport?

Not when it is a publicity stunt for someone that really does not deserve to be there.

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Not when it is a publicity stunt for someone that really does not deserve to be there.

Isn't that assuming a lot? I merely said if a women made an appearance in the major leagues it would be a major moment regardless of performance.

And the counter argument was that unless you dominate your start it's meaningless. But we all know that's not true. How many stories are there every so often of the career minor leaguer who finally gets an at bat or makes an appearance? It's the pinnacle of success in the sport.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

Isn't that assuming a lot? I merely said if a women made an appearance in the major leagues it would be a major moment regardless of performance.

And the counter argument was that unless you dominate your start it's meaningless. But we all know that's not true. How many stories are there every so often of the career minor leaguer who finally gets an at bat or makes an appearance? It's the pinnacle of success in the sport.

Not even remotely close to as much as your posts on the subject.

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Not even remotely close to as much as your posts on the subject.

Enlighten me. I have posted about the natural path to the major leagues only. You have only discussed the topic in terms of spectacle.

Women were banned from participating in major league affiliated baseball from 1952 to 1992. Since then they have been making inroads in the game. Women have played independent league baseball. Kelsie Whitmore has pitched in the Atlantic League the last two seasons. Women are coaching and managing in major league affiliated baseball. Olivia Pichardo made the 2023 Brown baseball team (Division 1) as a walk on. I see a future.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

Haha what does that mean exactly? That reaching the major leagues is not a measurement of success in the sport?

I am saying, while shocked it needs further clarification and even needed to be said in the first place, that a pitcher with a 54 ERA is not competitive by any rational definition. Obviously. Making it as a publicity stunt and then getting shelled would not be a success for the narrative, women, the league, or anyone else.

The league and the media would absolutely love having a new diversity first to promote. The only reason not to bring a woman in is because they are not actually going to be competitive and it will be embarrassing. There’s a reason it hasn’t happened.

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

I am saying, while shocked it needs further clarification and even needed to be said in the first place, that a pitcher with a 54 ERA is not competitive by any rational definition. Obviously. Making it as a publicity stunt and then getting shelled would not be a success for the narrative, women, the league, or anyone else.

The league and the media would absolutely love having a new diversity first to promote. The only reason not to bring a woman in is because they are not actually going to be competitive and it will be embarrassing. There’s a reason it hasn’t happened.

You are inventing a scenario where a woman is a publicity stunt.

You also contending that reaching the major leagues isn't an accomplishment unless you dominate in some way. Progressing through the minor leagues and playing in a major league game is a major accomplishment for anyone regardless of performance.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

You are inventing a scenario where a woman is a publicity stunt.

You also contending that reaching the major leagues isn't an accomplishment unless you dominate in some way. Progressing through the minor leagues and playing in a major league game is a major accomplishment for anyone regardless of performance.

Obviously a woman coming in and getting slammed for a 54 ERA 8: a publicity stunt. It is not competitive. You can call being a diversity hire a competitive all you want, but it’s not competitive in this scenario you tried to spin into a win and would make abundantly clear that a woman is not going to be competitive.

There is a giant gap between a 54 ERA and having to “dominate in some way to be competitive. Can we apply some basic common sense and think about things before just spouting bullshit?

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

Obviously a woman coming in and getting slammed for a 54 ERA 8: a publicity stunt. It is not competitive. You can call being a diversity hire a competitive all you want, but it’s not competitive in this scenario you tried to spin into a win and would make abundantly clear that a woman is not going to be competitive.

There is a giant gap between a 54 ERA and having to “dominate in some way to be competitive. Can we apply some basic common sense and think about things before just spouting bullshit?

Common sense like considering this woman was drafted or signed out of high school or college, or perhaps signed as an amateur free agent like every single person ever signed by a major league team? Common sense like considering this woman pitched several seasons of minor league baseball and was called up to the majors?

How are these things not common sense considerations to make about a potential woman playing major league baseball? That is how you find yourself on a major league roster.

I think what goes against common sense is to suggest the only scenario under which a woman plays major league baseball is a publicity stunt.