On card autos on modern rookies?

[bk400]

So there are a number of post 1990 players that resonate with me and that I want to collect. Is there value in looking for on-card autos of high card-grade rookies (9s and 10s on the card)?

My sense is that most of the autos in the past 10-15 years are the sticker ones, which are much more common. But between 1990 and 2010, I didn't see any stickers. And judging from the population reports, autographed, high grade rookie cards can be 1/100 as scarce as the non-autographed versions.

Any thoughts?

[packs]

Sticker autos aren't really that prevalent in baseball. I know Pro Debut is a product that uses stickers but the majority of products for baseball are on card. Bowman and Topps flagship products often have retail only versions of hobby autos that are also sometimes on stickers. But from my experience the vast majority of baseball product autos are on card.

This is different for other sports. Soccer, for example, is almost sticker exclusive.

[bk400]

Ah yes, thanks. I also collect some soccer cards (focus on rookies and on card autos of defenders) and made a poor assumption that those dynamics also applied to baseball.

Do you think autos are a sensible way to invest in lower pop versions of 1990-2010 era cards? For me, it seems that an auto gives the card a bit more of an authentic scarcity than, say, the "artificial" scarcity created more recently with all the 1/5 or 1/10 parallels etc that characterize the super modern hobby.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'm not sure any modern card is a great investment but probably better than the common as dirt base cards.
Here are a couple I own.

[bk400]

Peter, those are pretty cool autos of some serious players...

Here are a couple of my on-card autos, noting that they aren't all modern and aren't all baseball.

I show my kids the Dwight Gooden one so I have good collateral for a Say No To Drugs message.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by bk400

Here are a couple of my on-card autos, noting that they aren't all modern and aren't all baseball.

Nice, but I think the OP was asking about cards that were issued with autographs, as opposed to unsigned cards that were autographed after the fact.

[bk400]

Thanks -- I happened to be the original poster. I was actually more interested in whether looking for autographs on originally unsigned cards (particularly on cards that historically have a very high population) would be a profitable pursuit. I may have used the wrong terminology in the original post; I thought that an "on-card" auto is definitionally a hand signed autograph that happens after the original, unsigned card, is issued.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bk400

Thanks -- I happened to be the original poster. I was actually more interested in whether looking for autographs on originally unsigned cards (particularly on cards that historically have a very high population) would be a profitable pursuit. I may have used the wrong terminology in the original post; I thought that an "on-card" auto is definitionally a hand signed autograph that happens after the original, unsigned card, is issued.

To me on card is used to differentiate between two types of pack issued cards, those with autos on the card and those with an auto'd sticker added.

[swarmee]

Agreed, the terminology is "on card" means pack issued without a sticker auto, as in, the player actually held the card itself and autographed it.

"Sticker" auto is manufacturer released with a sticker signed by the player affixed by the company. Players get sent pages of stickers and never actually touch the cards themselves.

"Captured" auto is when something like a cardboard/index fragment is signed and installed into the card.

You're mainly talking about "Through the mail" or "In Person" (TTM/IP) autos; cards that are signed by the player after they've been released unsigned. COMC calls them "aftermarket" autos.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by bk400

Thanks -- I happened to be the original poster. I was actually more interested in whether looking for autographs on originally unsigned cards (particularly on cards that historically have a very high population) would be a profitable pursuit. I may have used the wrong terminology in the original post; I thought that an "on-card" auto is definitionally a hand signed autograph that happens after the original, unsigned card, is issued.

Signed card collector here. Yes is there is great value in Modern signed cards, especially rookie cards. I highly recommend getting a membership at sports collectors.net if anything for the private/public signing listings.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Signed card collector here. Yes is there is great value in Modern signed cards, especially rookie cards. I highly recommend getting a membership at sports collectors.net if anything for the private/public signing listings.

Thanks for the recommendation. I personally like the look of the aftermarket autos more than the pack pulled ones. Seems like there's more work involved in getting the aftermarket ones (noting that there are questions about authenticity swirling around the space) -- and more risk (and more reward?) in getting one on a higher grade rookie card.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by bk400

So there are a number of post 1990 players that resonate with me and that I want to collect. Is there value in looking for on-card autos of high card-grade rookies (9s and 10s on the card)?



My sense is that most of the autos in the past 10-15 years are the sticker ones, which are much more common. But between 1990 and 2010, I didn't see any stickers. And judging from the population reports, autographed, high grade rookie cards can be 1/100 as scarce as the non-autographed versions.



Any thoughts?

Topps Now is still not as highly sought after as Flagship base and Chrone. But all of their autos are on card, and a lot of collectors like that. However, it creates backlog issues waiting for players to sign mountains of cards during downtime.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would only buy pack issued ones. Perhaps I am too cynical but how hard is it, really, to fake someone's autograph and fool a grading service?

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would only buy pack issued ones. Perhaps I am too cynical but how hard is it, really, to fake someone's autograph and fool a grading service?

I hear you, Peter. I guess the more I research and the more I read books like Operation Bullpen and The Card, the more I think we have to pick our poison a bit.

If I (hypothetically) buy a PSA 10 Ozzie Smith rookie, how do I know it wasn't trimmed? Clearly, PSA has allowed at least one trimmed card to get through the gauntlet. Hard to imagine that there haven't been a whole lot of others that have gotten through as well. I suppose that there is a suspension of disbelief to some extent, especially if we are talking about more expensive cards where it pays to cheat.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would only buy pack issued ones. Perhaps I am too cynical but how hard is it, really, to fake someone's autograph and fool a grading service?

For modern players it’s pretty easy to stick to private signings and show signings. Also for as much as I hate the monopoly fanatics has become, they do at least provide signings with many major stars. You’ll pay heavily, but it’s part of game. There is also a pretty dedicated core of 20-30 consignment guys on SCN that attend every spring training and during the regular season usually have a local team they attend weekly. This is how I obtain many of my autos. The upside is you get a discount from show prices, the downside is you might get a rushed auto, have to wait and extended period (I’ve had one take almost 2 years), or not be able to have the consignment completed at all.

Autos are no different than anything else in the hobby. If it’s too good to be true - it isn’t.

My one and only card because my son played against him in Little League regularly and in the play offs, never on the same team except for Travel Baseball. Brandon stuck with Baseball, my son went with NASCAR as a Tire Carrier and Fabricator

[Peter_Spaeth]

How many players actually sign with a legible signature as opposed to a chicken scratch?

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would only buy pack issued ones. Perhaps I am too cynical but how hard is it, really, to fake someone's autograph and fool a grading service?

Yes and no.

I still and always will stay away from sticker autos unless it's a deal or a set-aside item. For me, the draw is that the player signed and handled the item. A freshly peeled sticker from a sheet of label he touched means nothing to me personally.

So while the pack issued sell at a premium and likely always will as the supply is limited and should not change, I do like and chase hand-signed RC's of modern if they are slabbed and certed. Without a slab, they are cool, but essentially near worthless at sale.

[G1911]

Not even pack issued ones are safe. Been more than one scandal with the pack issued certified autographs turning out not to be legit in recent years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Not even pack issued ones are safe. Been more than one scandal with the pack issued certified autographs turning out not to be legit in recent years.

LOL. Not surprised. Do you have a list?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOL. Not surprised. Do you have a list?

I don't have a list, but off the top of my head:

Dak Prescott Panini auto's were autopens.

A lot of Kenny Baker's (R2-D2) autographs for Topps were signed by a family member or someone else.

Luka Doncic's for Panini (one of which sold for over $4.6M as I recall) appeared to be very different from his actual autographs and signed much slower with different letter shapes. I don't believe this hit 100% proven, but it is highly suspect at best and appears to not be signed by him.

One of the bigger pulls in the Panini Country Music set was found to be an autopen and was a big drama for a few months a few years ago in the non-sport world.

Topps and Panini mail the cards to the person. The person signs them and mails them back. Some cards at some times have the certification saying the athlete said they were real and others have a "Topps representative" type verbiage, that just means someone else present, usually in the athlete's posse, validated they were signed by the athlete or person. Some others are done at in-person signings but this is a minority. It is a system rife with opportunity and incentive to just have one of your hanger-ons do it for you.

[Peter_Spaeth]

No end to hobby fraud is there.

[steve B]

A few mentioned here.
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...tentially-fake

If I remember right for one of the Signature rookies football cards the company rep went to the bathroom and the player had a friend sign some while he was away. Like 700 of the however many thousand.
I think they recalled them because they knew what numbers were bad.