PWCC listing of 1952 Mantle PSA 4.5 appears to be pressed

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by MattyC

One way to account for two certs is due to what is known as a Presidential Review, wherein the card is cracked and regraded with the stipulation it cannot go any lower. Or just as likely it was a crack and resub seeking a higher grade— after the person cracking had closely examined the card to feel certain it could not go any lower. Then there is the notion of someone thinking additional work could take it higher.

Looks like the corners were worked/laid down, pressing being one way to accomplish that. Depending on the degree of corner lift, sometimes it’s as simple as the grade school method of putting a card in a thick book and sitting on it LOL. Worked for me with a Wade Boggs RC in 1986!

Is putting a card under heavy books really considered altering a card?

I had a horrible situation where a BGS 9 1982 Wrestling All Stars Andre The Giant was lifting in the slab in the mylar sleeve and I had to crack it out to rescue it.

One of the corners started kind of bowing upwards with no actual damage and I put that card under a bunch of heavy books for a week or so to try and flatten it back out and it now resides in a PSA 8 holder.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Is putting a card under heavy books really considered altering a card?

I had a horrible situation where a BGS 9 1982 Wrestling All Stars Andre The Giant was lifting in the slab in the mylar sleeve and I had to crack it out to rescue it.

One of the corners started kind of bowing upwards with no actual damage and I put that card under a bunch of heavy books for a week or so to try and flatten it back out and it now resides in a PSA 8 holder.

Not to me. But soaking it and spooning it is.

[OlderTheBetter]

I don't consider soaking or pressing down a corner to be alteration and neither does PSA. Soaking just takes away surface dirt that was not originally there, and pressing is not changing the composition or changing the dimensions.

I also don't consider stain removal to be alteration. Again it's removing something that is not part of the actual card and was not orginally there.

IMHO this Mantle is clean conservation. They definitely did a little cleaning and pressing. No big deal.

I also collect comics and I think that the comic book community has a much more realistic attitude toward cleaning and pressing. For some reason sports card collectors prefer to keep their heads in the sand and pretend that these rampant practices are not happening.

It's a joke on them.

[nolemmings]

Thank you for your humble opinion. We'll agree to disagree.

Sports card collectors are not all pretending that "these rampant practices are not happening". On the contrary, as is evident from many posts here and elsewhere in this forum, several are sounding the alarm and their displeasure.
To them and me, it is no joke.

Enjoy your comic books, although to some extent that can be difficult if they are slabbed and unreadable. This might also explain why at least some restoration in that hobby is more tolerated. It seems harder to be bothered over changes that are likely not going to be seen; e.g., those to the pages inside the front and back covers.

[OlderTheBetter]

There are a lot of altered cards out there. You may have some in your collection. In fact if you have a significant number of older high-end cards that you purchased, slabbed or not -- then it's even more likely.

This stuff has been going on for years and has mostly been tolerated by the hobby or it else wouldn't now be so rampant, and and has now reached the stage of hypocrisy. A 52 Mantle appears to be have been "conserved". Wa wa wa. What about all the other thousands of altered cards over the years where there was a wink and a nod and nothing was said or done about it?

This just didnt' start happening overnight. PSA's first card ever was trimmed. The original sin. High quality counterfeits are the next big thing. So yes I think that collectors are fooling themselves to think this might be going away in their lifetime. As long as there are large profits to be made selling to collectors who are paying big bucks for old cardboard then it will continue.
It's been gaining steam steadily in recent years and nothing to stop it.

Don't expect grading companies to do anything. They do a volume business and their backlogs are already objectionable.

[ajg]

Wow With all the scrutiny this card has undergone it STILL got almost $59,000 for a PSA 4.5. Mantle Rookie cards show no signs of slowing down anytime soon.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by ajg

Wow With all the scrutiny this card has undergone it STILL got almost $59,000 for a PSA 4.5. Mantle Rookie cards show no signs of slowing down anytime soon.

No? Didnt a bvg 4.5 sell last night for 18k ?

Must be the "eyeballs"

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by ajg

Wow With all the scrutiny this card has undergone it STILL got almost $59,000 for a PSA 4.5. Mantle Rookie cards show no signs of slowing down anytime soon.

Wait there was a Mantle ROOKIE too???

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by ajg

Wow With all the scrutiny this card has undergone it STILL got almost $59,000 for a PSA 4.5. Mantle Rookie cards show no signs of slowing down anytime soon.

Yep winning bidder with under 50 feedback and all previous bids with PWCC. Another underbidder also had 100% bidding with PWCC a third with 66%... Quite possible this card ends up in the PWCC vault for a very very long time...

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter

There are a lot of altered cards out there. You may have some in your collection. In fact if you have a significant number of older high-end cards that you purchased, slabbed or not -- then it's even more likely.

This stuff has been going on for years and has mostly been tolerated by the hobby or it else wouldn't now be so rampant, and and has now reached the stage of hypocrisy. A 52 Mantle appears to be have been "conserved". Wa wa wa. What about all the other thousands of altered cards over the years where there was a wink and a nod and nothing was said or done about it?

This just didnt' start happening overnight. PSA's first card ever was trimmed. The original sin. High quality counterfeits are the next big thing. So yes I think that collectors are fooling themselves to think this might be going away in their lifetime. As long as there are large profits to be made selling to collectors who are paying big bucks for old cardboard then it will continue.
It's been gaining steam steadily in recent years and nothing to stop it.

Don't expect grading companies to do anything. They do a volume business and their backlogs are already objectionable.

I would disagree with you if you are ok with all of this. But in terms of a realistic outlook on the situation, I fear you are closer to being correct than many of us would like to admit.

[MattyC]

Hi DP,

That’s a question to which each collector will have their own answer. I certainly wouldn’t have you drawn and quartered for it Trust all is good.

MC

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Hi DP,

That’s a question to which each collector will have their own answer. I certainly wouldn’t have you drawn and quartered for it Trust all is good.

MC

All right cool.

Hope you are well Matt.

[Fuddjcal]

Is the DOCTOR IN????

I have some pliers, a spoon and some water, a bowl and an Exacto Knife!!! I need to learn how to upgrade cards like that!

[KCRfan1]

The card is in really nice condition, now. At this point, wouldn't it be worth consideration to restore the edge and corners to NM - MT condition and resubmit again? PSA keeps passing the card, why not go all in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Auction going strong at 40K. It isn't looking to me like either PWCC is going to take it down or PSA is going to intervene?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am just speculating that one set of work was performed pre-Heritage and another (on a different corner) was performed pre-PWCC. If that's right, PSA missed this twice. Lovely. But the problem with that theory is if there was a second card doctor, he surely would have recognized the initial work and not taken a chance on cracking the card out? Anyhow, it's a shame we even have to think about this stuff. Now back to your regularly scheduled love-in for PSA and PWCC.

LOL.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Auction going strong at 40K. It isn't looking to me like either PWCC is going to take it down or PSA is going to intervene?

Highly doubtful as, in my opinion, things have gotten worse rather than better with regards to shenanigans like this.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Auction going strong at 40K. It isn't looking to me like either PWCC is going to take it down or PSA is going to intervene?

I wouldn't think someone pressing down a corner would be grounds to pull an auction or a PSA grade and cert number. I would be fine with this "alteration" if I were bidding on the card.