Interesting question (at least to me)....

[btkpath]

First some background....

So, I recently purchased a PSA 10 Kellogg's 1971 3D card (I know this isn't pre-war, but please hear me out). These cards have a thick plastic coating that imparts a 3D appearance to the card and are very prone to cracking. It arrived with several large cracks in the thick plastic coating. Clearly PSA would not have graded it a PSA 10 with those cracks, so they must have happened after the grading process and I actually thought it may have occurred during the shipping of the card to me, due to either modest jarring of the package or perhaps to temperature fluctuations (as it turns out, not the case).

So I have several questions:

1. Has anyone experienced other examples of cards significantly "changing" (meaning a change of at least several PSA grade levels) within the plastic grading cassette?

2. What are examples of cards that are prone to this change? Other than the example I gave, could this happen with coupon cards, where the coupon just detaches after grading and significantly reduces the value or grade of the card? I know that some have commented on some SGC holders trapping the card underneath the black insert, potentially tearing some fragile cards.

3. It is conceivable (in fact, this is what I originally thought was the case with the card I purchased) that a card could be packaged for shipping in original condition and arrive in significantly changed condition, with the shipping company not really being at fault either (typical handling by the shipping company and temperature fluctuations without overt evidence of a damaged package arriving). Who would be responsible in this instance (regardless of whether the card was insured)?

I would love to hear valued comments or experiences.

[jp1216]

You are buying the card - not the holder. IMHO, you paid for a card that was said to be in '10' condition and wasn't upon arrival. I would seek refund from the seller. Too many people hide behind the label and don't verify the card. Good question either way and worth the debate.

[D. Bergin]

It's a good question.

I think the Kellogg's cards are notorious for this.


I also have some 78 OPC Baseball graded cards that looked like they had some type of condensation warping, after they were graded.

[btkpath]

Hi Jon,

I completely agree with your comment regarding buying the card, not the holder. I am in the process of trying to return the card. The seller has a 7 day return policy, so I assume there will not be an issue, especially since upon very close inspection the seller's ad picture contains the cracks. It does beg the question why such an obvious flaw was omitted in the description of the card.

[jp1216]

Originally Posted by btkpath

especially since upon very close inspection the seller's ad picture contains the cracks.

That is key. Good Luck. I have a few Kelloggs cards too - all are cracked..

[Exhibitman]

Cracking is probably the future of all of the 3D cards. The plastic and paper age and react to conditions differently. That is why the cards tend to curl over time. As for cracking, odds are that the card had curled and the plasticizers in the plastic used to coat the card evaporated, making the plastic brittle. When the card went into the holder and was flattened, the brittle plastic started to crack and the cracks expanded over time.

[71buc]

I have always enjoyed these cards probably harkens back to my days of begging my mother to buy the boxes containing them. I purchased this PSA 9Mays last year. It was every bit of a 9 when I received it. A couple of months ago I was looking at my Kelloggs cards and noticed it had cracked in while in the holder. The crack was not there previously. I think that is the nature of these cards due to the material they were created with.

[steve B]

Yep, if there was ever a card that shouldn't be constrained in the slab it's the 3-d cards. Archivally there's so much going on there that really isn't precisely understood. I have 3-d stuff that's older than the Kelloggs, probably mid 1960's, that's barely warped. And I have later Kelloggs from the 80's that are quote warped. So much for keeping the mail in set in 4 card panels as it was shipped to me! 10 years on they curled and became singles.

I do have a few 70's 3-d cards in screwdowns that are still uncracked and flat. But if I take them out I'll be very nervous.


I also have had concerns about slabbing cards made on acidic cardboard. While most T cards seem to have been low acid board the strip cards and most 50's Topps seem like they could be at risk. as the cardboard breaks down it releases acid, and if it's kept airtight that acid can't evaporate and does more damage. I'd love to have the big 3 companies slab a card along with a bit of test paper to see what happens. But I doubt I'd have any takers. If it goes like I think it might it would be a huge hit to the business, and it would mean that we've already damaged the very best cards of 2-3 eras. (20's, 50's, and 70's)

Steve B