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View Poll Results: What is your response to the recent PWCC revelations? | |||
1. I wasn't buying from or consigning to PWCC in the first place. | 166 | 34.87% | |
I will no longer buy from/consign to PWCC. | 163 | 34.24% | |
I will continue to buy from/consign to PWCC. | 78 | 16.39% | |
I haven't decided | 69 | 14.50% | |
Voters: 476. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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I don't know about NY, but in TX it's against the law to take money for a service you didn't provide.
Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 06-13-2019 at 07:15 AM. Reason: spelling |
#2
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Really? Which Texas criminal statute are you referring to?
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#3
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It's right under the statute that affirms that doctoring a card is fraud. Surely you're familiar with it?
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#4
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PSA’s incompetence is not criminal, just as stupidity isn’t criminalized either.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#5
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Maybe not criminal, but they're still obligated to perform the service for which they were paid. If I hire a contractor to remodel my kitchen and he screws it up, do I not have any recourse? Sure I do. |
#6
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Of course! They’re 100% liable civilly for their lousy work. And lousy is being kind.
And I wish a criminal case could be made against PSA as it would better explain some of their head-scratching incompetence. But that would require evidence that they purposely allowed altered cards to be graded, ie someone getting paid off to do so. There hasn’t even been smoke yet suggesting such evidence exists. But who knows for certain.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#7
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Leon you raise a great point. A large percentage of respondents weren't using PWCC prior and so while their opinion matters for this poll it has no bearing on the future impact of PWCC.
I have been wearing Nike Air Max since I was 17. For the last 23 years I have only worn this type of athletic shoe. They have raised the price over time and the last pair I purchased was over $200. Nike in my view has the best styling and performance you can find and for that I am a loyal customer. Last year they did the unthinkable and ran adds with Colin Kaepernick. I despise that guy. How on earth could Nike alienate such a large percentage of their customer base in favor of making a political statement? In mass there was outrage on social media. Their stock dropped on the news. Videos of long time customers burning their products and swearing never to buy from them again. Here we sit a year later and I have never seen the add once, their stock is back to right where it was, you never hear anyone saying they are done with Nike, and my next pair of shoes will still be Air Max. I shave six to seven days a week. I use the Gillette five blade and Edge shave gel. There have been loads of new products come onto the market. Cheaper blades, fancy shave creams and I still use the same formula that works for me. Gillette releases an add focusing on Toxic Masculinity. WTF??? Their vision is for all men to be beta male soy boys after for years showcasing studs that get chicks. Outrage ensues. Social media is exploding. Their idiotic video is shared countless times and the response was so bad they deleted thousands of comments from it on Youtube. My wife even said Dave I don't want Gillette products in our home. Here I sit as I type this and once more all of this has gone away. I still use the Gillette five blade and will continue to because in my view it is the best razor blade on the market. This saga will pass in time. Collecting is an individual choice where people put their hard earned money into collectibles and to completely boycott the seller won't last. I am confident plenty of people saying this today will eventually turn and purchase from them once more. The same people consigning to PWCC could simply send the cards to Probstein. Are you going to boycott all consignment sellers? Of course not. Many of us search daily for specific cards or ones that could enhance our collections and I am not going to give up on that just because there is the appearance of wrong doing. It is laughable to think that all PWCC auctioned cards are bad. Reading comments on various boards that all high grade cards are suspect. Give me a break. I have self subbed a ton. Many others have too. |
#8
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#9
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It is mind boggling, confusing, shocking and a whole host of other descriptions that people are still willing to purchase, and in essence, support PWCC after what has been exposed about them to date. I guess I will never understand the rationality behind it? To me, its like continuing to purchase something from a dept store or another business that is well known to sell suspect merchandise or known to rip off its customers. Also, like I stated before, with PWCC being a top selling entity. Does anyone honestly think they would be as well known/popular as they are if they didn't sell these supposed high end PSA 8, 9's, and 10 cards? Take away all the doctored/known cards that have been discovered to date and what do you have? Nothing. They would be nothing more than an average ebay selling entity. They got to that status/popularity by being dishonest, deceitful, crooked and corrupt and if anyone can't see that, then you simply have the blinders on or lack the mental aptitude to grasp that fact.
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#10
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[QUOTE=Aquarian Sports Cards;1888471]You're equating possible criminal behavior with social issue marketing with which you disagree.[/QUOTe
The only issue here for most people is that they have done something that may tarnish their brand. PWCC has 44,648 completed listings on the most recent EBAY search. They are just like Nike and just like Gillette and sell products to consumers. They are the premium brand just like these two are in the sports collectables market. There are a lot of sellers that would like to see harm done to them because it would once more open up business opportunities for them that at the present no longer exist. When you think of the best cards offered on EBAY they are the first name that comes to mind. I think just like the two examples I gave that there are a lot of upset people that will over time move on. There is a lot of value in a brand. If they have done un repairable damage to that brand we will find out in the coming months. I would bet they haven't because the products they offer are what consumers are looking for. |
#11
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negligence?
jeff/peter, do you think psa's actions (or lack thereof) were negligent? do you think a judge/jury would find them negligent (either criminal or civil)?
Last edited by griffon512; 06-13-2019 at 08:46 AM. |
#12
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If I were claiming PSA misgraded a card I bought, I would just bring a claim on their guarantee, which is an easier case in the nature of strict liability, I'm not sure why I would go to negligence although I'd have to think about it further.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#13
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PSA has always banked on people not willing to sue them due to the relatively small amount in dispute when they misgrade a card. So they refuse to honor the guarantee for any reason they think will fit, and rarely pay out.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/sets |
#14
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It’s simply amazing that’s a major swath of this board has apparently not been participating in PWCC auctions for sometime, yet in the past year I’ve been outbid on over 95% of the high end items I’ve bid on.
I call bullshit. Last edited by Snapolit1; 06-13-2019 at 02:46 PM. |
#15
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They might have done you a favor by outbidding you, Steve.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#16
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So call BS all you want. |
#17
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I said yes, I'll still consign. If someone creates a consignment service as efficient and effective as PWCC, maybe I'll switch. I haven't bought much from them, but if they still had something that I liked, I'd still probably bid. I tend to shy away from high-dollar cards at PWCC though.
On a related note, why have we only heard from LOTG on this scandal? Surely many of these cards originated from other auction houses. Surely these cards will start to make their way into other auction houses if PWCC actually starts to reject Moser consignments. Should we assume other auction houses will reject six figure consignments from Moser if given the opportunity? |
#18
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#19
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But you keep alluding to this well of knowledge about other card doctors and AHs that might be complicit as well. My question is - why not share that knowledge? Tell us about that conversation. Give us the details. With all due respect, I don't know how 100s of snarky posts help advance the hobby at this point. Many of us would benefit by hearing what you know vs. just what you think about the topic at hand. The latter has been well established, but I know many would benefit from your knowledge as it might help others avoid potential landmines. I say that without any sarcasm at all. |
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