World Record Prices for Soccer Cards!

[Anish]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At least before the Messi/Ronaldo era, the supply of soccer cards seems so tiny compared to the so-called major sports that if there is even a modest uptick in demand, I would think that could translate into substantial price increases. Of course that's a big if.

I’m not sure if it’s that tiny or if people just haven’t bothered to find and sell them yet.

Of course, the populations of countries like Brazil and Sweden are much smaller than that of the US, so presumably production was lower.

It seems like we discover new sets and cards every day...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Anish

I’m not sure if it’s that tiny or if people just haven’t bothered to find and sell them yet.

Of course, the populations of countries like Brazil and Sweden are much smaller than that of the US, so presumably production was lower.

It seems like we discover new sets and cards every day...

Just to pick 1991 at random, I would be very confident that the ratio of Chipper Jones rookies to Zidane rookies is close to infinity.

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by Anish

I’m not sure if it’s that tiny or if people just haven’t bothered to find and sell them yet.

Of course, the populations of countries like Brazil and Sweden are much smaller than that of the US, so presumably production was lower.

It seems like we discover new sets and cards every day...

You know I love you man, but to compare Sweden to Brazil in terms of size is CRAZY. I think that there are a TON of albums in Brazil, but people do not know what they have. There were 75 million people in Brazil in 1960 (now there are more than 200 million). There were 7 million people in Sweden in 1960 and only 9 million today.

My hypothesis is that many were tossed, but many Brazilian cards are stuck in boxes of "stuff" and when people realize some of the value of these things, they may actually make there way out. In Brazilian, football is not a religion... it is MORE important than religion! So there have to be a ton of cards and albums out there. It is just a matter of sheer numbers. I collect many Latin issues (Cuban, Puerto Rican, Mexican, etc.) and the number of Brazilian cards as of now are way lower than one would reasonably expect in relation to the others.

Here is some numbers of Pele ROOKIES to consider (current PSA number of cards graded):

VAV (Italy) - 7 - This, for me is one of the rarest of Pele rookies
Heinerle (Germany) - 62
Quigol (Brazil) - 29
Rekord (Sweden) - 70
ALFA (Sweden) - 33
Titulares (Brazil) - 23 (including cards #50 and #86)

OK, we would expect a lot of cards from Sweden as the World Cup was held there that year, but given the fact that Brazil is 10X the size, loves/eats/sleeps/dreams in football, it stands to reason that there are MANY more cards out there. I do believe, however, that they are much less common than the equivalent USA baseball issues (because they are roughly half the size in population and the standard of living was lower).

Anyway, these are my thoughts for the day.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

You know I love you man, but to compare Sweden to Brazil in terms of size is CRAZY. I think that there are a TON of albums in Brazil, but people do not know what they have. There were 75 million people in Brazil in 1960 (now there are more than 200 million). There were 7 million people in Sweden in 1960 and only 9 million today.

My hypothesis is that many were tossed, but many Brazilian cards are stuck in boxes of "stuff" and when people realize some of the value of these things, they may actually make there way out. In Brazilian, football is not a religion... it is MORE important than religion! So there have to be a ton of cards and albums out there. It is just a matter of sheer numbers. I collect many Latin issues (Cuban, Puerto Rican, Mexican, etc.) and the number of Brazilian cards as of now are way lower than one would reasonably expect in relation to the others.

Here is some numbers of Pele ROOKIES to consider (current PSA number of cards graded):

VAV (Italy) - 7 - This, for me is one of the rarest of Pele rookies
Heinerle (Germany) - 62
Quigol (Brazil) - 29
Rekord (Sweden) - 70
ALFA (Sweden) - 33
Titulares (Brazil) - 23 (including cards #50 and #86)

OK, we would expect a lot of cards from Sweden as the World Cup was held there that year, but given the fact that Brazil is 10X the size, loves/eats/sleeps/dreams in football, it stands to reason that there are MANY more cards out there. I do believe, however, that they are much less common than the equivalent USA baseball issues (because they are roughly half the size in population and the standard of living was lower).

Anyway, these are my thoughts for the day.

The thing that strikes me about your post, Al, besides the good analysis, is that all of the countries listed except Brazil were stable, Western, first-world democracies at the time of issue of these cards and have basically remained that way since. Brazil was a developing country with substantial political instability over the decades. Big populace but poor. Perhaps that difference has something to do with it.

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The thing that strikes me about your post, Al, besides the good analysis, is that all of the countries listed except Brazil were stable, Western, first-world democracies at the time of issue of these cards and have basically remained that way since. Brazil was a developing country with substantial political instability over the decades. Big populace but poor. Perhaps that difference has something to do with it.

Big populace, but poor. Absolutely the case. However, you have seen these cards? They are slightly more than paper and must have been extremely cheap to make.. why? Because even the poor could afford them. That is my hypothesis. I am not 100% sure, but that is my thought. Still whatever the numbers, they will pale in comparison to the number of 1950's Topps baseball cards... I just think that there will be substantially more found when/if word gets out of the value and the TPGs continue to grade them. It is still shocking to me that the VAV number is so low. Significantly more scarce than I have expected prior to researching the population reports.

[Ulidia]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

I just think that there will be substantially more found when/if word gets out of the value and the TPGs continue to grade them. It is still shocking to me that the VAV number is so low.

This is an important point. I have almost zero knowledge of cards but the more traditional soccer collectibles were incredibly hard to find from Southern and Central America through the 1980s and 1990s which was frustrating for collectors due to the World Cups being held in Uruguay in 1930, Brazil in 1950 and Chile in 1962.

Items such as programs and tickets from those tournaments were incredibly hard to find and when they did come up for auction, commandes high prices.

However, a number of high profile auctions (esp. by Sothebys in London in Q4 1999 which included one of the two finest collections of 1930 World Cup memorabilia) helped to highlight the money that could be made from such items. The result over the subsequent two decades has been a deluge of memorabilia from these regions and focused on these World Cup - some of the memorabilia has been high quality, some low quality and much is fake (esp early poster and tickets).

The net result, unsurprisingly, has been a sharp drop in prices, with the fake items leading to contagion in terms of prices realised for even the very good items with solid provenance.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by aljurgela

Big populace, but poor. Absolutely the case. However, you have seen these cards? They are slightly more than paper and must have been extremely cheap to make.. why? Because even the poor could afford them. That is my hypothesis. I am not 100% sure, but that is my thought. Still whatever the numbers, they will pale in comparison to the number of 1950's Topps baseball cards... I just think that there will be substantially more found when/if word gets out of the value and the TPGs continue to grade them. It is still shocking to me that the VAV number is so low. Significantly more scarce than I have expected prior to researching the population reports.

The stock makes card survival even less likely. Look at the paper Cuban issues. A Montiel that isn’t near trashed is rare.

I am sure more will emerge. That has been the case with my beloved Argentinean boxing issues. When sellers realized there’s a US market for the cards they started selling on eBay and now you can find the more common issues regularly.

[aljurgela]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The stock makes card survival even less likely. Look at the paper Cuban issues. A Montiel that isn’t near trashed is rare.

I am sure more will emerge. That has been the case with my beloved Argentinean boxing issues. When sellers realized there’s a US market for the cards they started selling on eBay and now you can find the more common issues regularly.

Agree with you that survival in good condition is near impossible, but if housed in the album, I think that many will make it. Noticed the same thing for the Argentine soccer cards. They are more available, but still very tough to get.