Need help on 1951 Bowman - Mickey Mantle

[ngnichols]

Ok Net54, I need your help on determining if this 1951 Bowman - Mickey Mantle RC is legit or fake. Obviously the quality of the pics aren't great, but it's what I have at the moment:





I've never owned this card so my knowledge is pretty limited on what I need to look for in-specific to know if this card is legit or not. Any helpful hints/tips would be greatly appreciated along with your opinion on the above card.

[swarmee]

Take it out of the scratched up case. Then smell it and feel it. Does it feel antique or modern?
To me, the card it too centered, the borders are too clean, and the edges look untouched. It would be like a PSA 6. So would the guy you're buying it from have a $20K card? I would be very worried. Make a deal that you send it to PSA/BGS and if it gets an AUTH or number grade, you will pay him $2K or whatever. Otherwise you get a full refund, but you eat the grading fee.

Addition: doesn't seem to have the pixelation I would expect from an original 1951 Bowman. Look at this one to compare. Also, it seems like Mantle has a sunburn. Are you in Dallas right now? Could you drop by Beckett with the guy and get it validated in person?


1951 Bowman - [Base] #253 - Mickey Mantle [BVG*2]
Courtesy of COMC.com

[Scocs]

F-a-k-e

[ngnichols]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Take it out of the scratched up case. Then smell it and feel it. Does it feel antique or modern?
To me, the card it too centered, the borders are too clean, and the edges look untouched. It would be like a PSA 6. So would the guy you're buying it from have a $20K card? I would be very worried. Make a deal that you send it to PSA/BGS and if it gets an AUTH or number grade, you will pay him $2K or whatever. Otherwise you get a full refund, but you eat the grading fee.

Addition: doesn't seem to have the pixelation I would expect from an original 1951 Bowman. Look at this one to compare. Also, it seems like Mantle has a sunburn. Are you in Dallas right now? Could you drop by Beckett with the guy and get it validated in person?


1951 Bowman - [Base] #253 - Mickey Mantle [BVG*2]
Courtesy of COMC.com

The card is not in my direct possession and it is not local. It's within reasonable driving distance from here for that card.

I'd definitely do that deal, but I'm not sure that person would do it.

Guy is asking for $4k so it's not an astronomical #, but also not so low that it's too good to be true. If I looked at the card through my loupe and felt it, I could probably tell if it's legit or not. Without that, I feel it's pretty difficult to tell. I'm just trying to see if it's worth investing the time/effort to drive and investigate further.

[swarmee]

If it's reasonable driving distance, have him meet you at Beckett on Wednesday. But it looks bad to me and the other posted in this thread.

[ngnichols]

Originally Posted by swarmee

If it's reasonable driving distance, have him meet you at Beckett on Wednesday. But it looks bad to me and the other posted in this thread.

I'm talking a few hours. It's reasonable to me, but for some it may not be.

After looking at the BGS example, I can definitely tell a difference between the two both on his face, his arm, and the bat.

[CW]

The first red flag is the super sharp corners. Those seem too good to be true. Any potential seller would be a complete idiot to NOT have that card graded first with corners like that (assuming it's a legit card).

Second, the colors on the face seem off to me. Compare to a real card and you might see it.

Third, the photos seem to be intentionally crappy, so it's hard to really tell for sure if it's real or fake. Notice how the case is so scratched up?

Fifth, and finally, the front and back photos seem to be two different cards. The front photo shows the card in a hard case and the background is dark, while the back photo has the card in a mylar sleeve with a white tile backdrop. This just seems like a scammer who's too lazy to hide the fact that these are two different cards.

We had a thread here just a couple weeks ago about a fake '51 Bowman Mantle, and one way to tell was from the printing on the back being just a little bit off (ie. where the copyright symbol lines up beneath the text above it).

Here's the previous threadL http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=239796

[megalimey]

Originally Posted by ngnichols

Ok Net54, I need your help on determining if this 1951 Bowman - Mickey Mantle RC is legit or fake. Obviously the quality of the pics aren't great, but it's what I have at the moment:





I've never owned this card so my knowledge is pretty limited on what I need to look for in-specific to know if this card is legit or not. Any helpful hints/tips would be greatly appreciated along with your opinion on the above card.

its either a 100% fake(reprint) or the only Mint 10 on the planet
i know where my money is going , color ,centering, cornering just way to crisp and the laser cut edges are too perfect a $9 valuation which they currently sell for on ebay would be a better estimate
hopefully you did not see this on craigs list where 95% of fakes are sold

[bobbyw8469]

Fake as a three dollar bill...be careful.

[Volod]

Just a quick glance tells a collector who has handled a lot of these cards that the borders are too big. If it were off-center somewhat, as many Mantles are, the bottom border on that card would look like it was a quarter of an inch wide.

[Stonepony]

The back pic could be a legit Mantle. The front pic is not

[reddog4063]

Its a fake and a bad one at that. You may need to continue learning about these cards before you are ready to buy a card like this from two bad pictures. Please pay your dues and learn about the hobby to save yourself a lot of heartache in the long run.

[ALR-bishop]

Nate-- you lucked out. Not only did you get some great advice but someone threw in a free lecture

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Volod

Just a quick glance tells a collector who has handled a lot of these cards that the borders are too big. If it were off-center somewhat, as many Mantles are, the bottom border on that card would look like it was a quarter of an inch wide.

+1

That's the first thing I noticed; borders are way too big!

Steve

[REGGIE206]

I've done a lot of research on this card while I was in the hunt for one.

The boarders are way too white. That is my first clue. The second is how perfect the centering is. It's very difficult to find one that centered, along with such a white boarder. The third clue is how the back color looks too even. Original vintage backs age uneven with the back color.

Please keep in mind that my "clues" are just "red flags". It doesn't technically make the card fake. There is a possibility that card is a rare mint 1951 Bowman Mantle. Now you have to figure out if that gamble is worth the $4k?

I personally don't like to gamble with that much money. I'd rather spend the $4k on a decent looking PSA 2. That way, I would sleep better at night.

That is just my 2 cents. Good luck with your decision.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Nate-- you lucked out. Not only did you get some great advice but someone threw in a free lecture

Al,

You forgot your smiley

[ngnichols]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Nate-- you lucked out. Not only did you get some great advice but someone threw in a free lecture

LOL, yeah I saw that and got a good laugh.

I've purchased my fair share of higher-end vintage cards that were raw here in the past year or so. I don't need some guy on a forum telling me I need to "pay my dues." That's just dumb and meaningless.

Obviously it's a whole different ballgame just looking at a card from crappy pictures and telling if it's real or not vs. actually being able to handle and examine the card directly. I've had 1951 Bowman cards before so I know what they should feel like. It's also not a card I've had a ton of in-person experience with so I haven't been able to examine one up close with a loupe to see distinguishing features of that specific card.

I knew there would be plenty of people with more experience with this card than me on here so it was a no-brainer to post on here first to get more educated opinions on whether it was worth my time/effort to pursue it further.